Monday, January 9, 2017

Trump and Sessions Plan to Restrict Highly Skilled Foreign Workers

Amid promises of sweeping changes to immigration policy, President-elect Donald Trump and his choice for attorney general, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), have tabbed the H-1B visa program for a major overhaul, and might even scrap it altogether, reports The Washington Post.

The visas bring nearly 100,000 “highly skilled” contract workers, mostly in tech and mostly from India, to the United States every year. Most stay for multiple years, and some eventually get green cards. According to federal guidelines, H-1Bs are intended to fill positions for which American workers with the requisite skills can’t be found.

Notes WaPo:
 Trump has described H-1Bs as a “cheap labor program” subject to “widespread, rampant” abuse. 
Sessions co-sponsored legislation last year with Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) to effectively gut the program; Issa, a congressman with Trump’s ear, released a statement Wednesday saying he was reintroducing similar legislation called the Protect and Grow American Jobs Act. 
Sessions probably will give at least a glimpse of his plans regarding the program at his confirmation hearing Tuesday. 
What a bunch of economic ignoramuses. There is just no other way to describe this kind of anti-trade, anti-employment movement.

 -RW

27 comments:

  1. I often wonder how much is economic ignorance versus these people just preferring displays of nationalistic solidarity over economics as such.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Re: Evan Smiley,

      ─ I often wonder how much is economic ignorance versus these people just preferring displays of nationalistic solidarity over economics as such. ─

      I would think that there are those who pander to the ignorant and repeat the same fallacies over and over, especially on Tee Vee.

      Delete
  2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. A high end version of the Wal-Mart model except explicitly employing educated foreign nationals. It's enterprising but it isn't "free."

      Delete
    2. Re: Neil,

      ─ What happens is the companies bring in Indian computer techs who will work for very low wages to replace the American tech workforce. ─

      You can read from the above that Trumpistas were never serious about wanting legal immigration. They don't want immigration, period. It's all about feelings, about envy.

      What's your problem with companies bringing in less expensive techies? It's NOT YOUR MONEY. It's THEIR MONEY.


      ─ Seems kind of messed up if you ask me. ─

      That is why nobody is asking you, because IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY.

      ─ So what you end up with is low paid Indians working and living in the U.S. on government assistance ─

      What a gawd-damned liar you are!

      Delete
  3. The H-1B program is currently a scam. It creates indentured servants out of foreign workers who become totally dependent on their host employer/owner. Further, the same employers conduct sham interviews whose sole purpose is to build a case against hiring domestically.
    This is all corporate human resource manuevering as a result of an burdensome employment law so I don't anticipate the H-1B scam will be scrapped, only re-engineered to be a more effective scam.

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    1. Re: Unknown,

      ─ The H-1B program is currently a scam. ─

      It is not a scam.

      ─ It creates indentured servants out of foreign workers [...] ─

      What complete nonsense. It is one thing that a worker would prefer to stay in the US but it is quite another that his or her preference means he or she is being "indentured".

      Delete
  4. Living right down the street from Micron Technology in Boise, Idaho, my apartment complex is filled with engineers, the majority of whom are from India.

    I don't see how Micron - and also all consumers benefiting from their labor - wouldn't be unaffected by Trump's nonsense.

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  5. It seems others have already hit the major points, but there are more. For thirty years or more there has been a push to get american kids interested in fields like engineering but H1-B visas have caused salaries to stagnate and thus american kids with the intelligence to do so go into finance or other well rewarded fields instead.

    The rules of the H1-B visa program also mitigate some of the risk in hiring foreigners. They are locked in at low cost for years. If they just showed up asking for a lower salary than americans if they were any good it wouldn't be long before they were demanding more money or leaving for other firms. With the visa program there's also at least the perception that the federal government checks these people out to some degree. Also without the program's rules there's nothing to hold over their heads. They could come and go from the USA as they saw fit and take a company's proprietary knowledge with them.

    Simply put the program is nothing like an open borders libertarian utopia, it's very much the opposite. I don't expect Trump or his people or the republican party to fix it either.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Re: Jimmy Joe Meeker,

      ─ For thirty years or more there has been a push to get american kids interested in fields like engineering but H1-B visas have caused salaries to stagnate ─

      Liar.

      It is false that salaries are stagnating. The reason why tech companies are looking for workers outside the US is because there are really not enough engineers in the US. It is not that foreign workers are cheaper, since the cost of renewing the visa is paid by the employer, including attorney fees.

      ─ The rules of the H1-B visa program also mitigate some of the risk in hiring foreigners. They are locked in at low cost for years. ─

      For "years"? Come on. For the foreigner, it is an INVESTMENT, because an H1-B visa allows the worker to apply for a Greencard.

      ─ They could come and go from the USA as they saw fit and take a company's proprietary knowledge with them. ─

      So much for your argument that they are "locked in at low cost." Now you're saying that they're a flight risk. Please.

      Why do Trumpistas think they can get away with throwing arguments that contradict each other in just TWO PARAGRAPHS?

      Delete
    2. Torres,

      "liar"? No, you're clueless.

      When I was in highschool in the 1980s there was a push to get kids into engineering. That has not ended. It has ramped up. It's 2017 and there still hasn't been any sort of bidding up of talent to encourage children into the field. What there is, is the H1-B visa program to prevent that bidding war by increasing supply. Sure sometimes for some very specialized experience there is bidding, but that is an exception, not a rule.

      The cost of visa is trivial for locking the worker in place.

      "For "years"? Come on. For the foreigner, it is an INVESTMENT, because an H1-B visa allows the worker to apply for a Greencard."

      Indentured servitude was an "INVESTMENT" for the servant too. If it wasn't they would not do it. It takes YEARS to get a greencard. The relevant thing is that they aren't able to simply go work for someone else easily.

      "So much for your argument that they are "locked in at low cost." Now you're saying that they're a flight risk. Please."

      Your usual lack of reading skills. That's under the condition of libertarian no visas and open boarders. Why don't you quote completely? "Also without the program's rules there's nothing to hold over their heads. They could come and go from the USA as they saw fit and take a company's proprietary knowledge with them."

      "Why do Trumpistas think they can get away with throwing arguments that contradict each other in just TWO PARAGRAPHS?"

      Your usual lack of thinking ability combines with your lack of reading ability. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a "TRUMPIST". But then again no matter what anyone writes you're disagreeable to it for sport.

      Again, the H1-B visa program is not some sort of libertarian free market labor arrangement. It is a government intervention.

      Delete
    3. Re: Jimmy Joe Meeker,

      ─ "liar"? No, you're clueless. ─

      Mmm, nope. You're a liar. It is NOT true that H1-B visas have caused salaries to "stagnate".

      ─ When I was in highschool in the 1980s there was a push to get kids into engineering. ─

      I don't care.


      ─ is the H1-B visa program to prevent that bidding war by increasing supply. ─

      That's a laugh. You don't even understand how H1-B works. There's always a much greater demand for H1-B visas than supply, which should tell you - if you knew what you were talking about - that there aren't nearly enough qualified engineers in the US.

      ─ The cost of visa is trivial for locking the worker in place. ─


      ─ Indentured servitude was an "INVESTMENT" for the servant too. ─

      So now you're going to engage in equivocation? And intellectual dishonesty, to boot?

      ─ Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a "TRUMPIST". ─

      It's not because you disagree with me. It is because your poor argumentation and your reliance on fallacy and just plain making stuff up indicates you're a Trumpista. If it quacks like a duck....

      ─ Again, the H1-B visa program is not some sort of libertarian free market labor arrangement. It is a government intervention. ─

      AH, and now a STRAWMAN ARGUMENT! We have a winner!

      NOBODY said H1-B is a free market mechanism. What is being argued is that Trumpistas are using BAD anti-immigration arguments to attack the program, or just plainly making stuff up.

      Delete
    4. You don't care but you addressed it by calling me a liar, so you do care. The effort has been decades long and shows no end.

      You're making declarations not arguments. How long have you been an engineer Mr. Torres? Do you have any experience with this market at all? How can you say increasing supply has not resulted in the stagnation of engineering wages? There is no shortage of engineers presently. There's no bidding war going on. There's no need for a special government program to increase supply except to serve corporate desires to keep salaries lower than they would otherwise be.

      Unlike you, I experience the market being discussed. There is no evidence of shortage. None. Companies are not bidding up salaries. The Mn federal reserve agrees salaries are stagnant for their region:

      www.minneapolisfed.org/~/media/images/pubs/fedgaz/14-04/fg_apr2014_stem_ch7_large.jpg?la=en

      H-1B increases the supply of engineers. It increases the supply of engineers willing to work for less. It mitigates the risk of hiring foreign nationals. What is your argument that it has not contributed to the stagnation of salaries? Logic dictates it must be at the very least a contributing cause.

      Torres, the intellectual dishonesty was addressing me with the notion of that it is an "investment" for the foreigner to get an H-1B visa and live under its conditions. This addressed no argument I made. I made an appropriate response. If it was not to their benefit they would not do it. But I was not discussing their benefit, I was discussing the market distortions of the program.

      You called me a "trumpist", torres. You have to use labels because you lack an argument or understanding of the situation in question. Your inability to read and comprehend what is clearly written is not a poor argument on my part.

      You are defending H1-B as if it is not libertarian to find fault with it. You call me a "trumpist" and a "liar" as your response. You really don't make an argument beyond such declarations. So if you are in agreement that H-1B is not free market, you're just being disagreeable for the sake of it.

      Delete
  6. H1-B is a scam. I'm ambivalent about the high skilled workers part, but the program is abused especially by wealthy Chinese who buy their citizenship through "investment" in new business. They grease the right sponsor who get them in and then the investment is never made. The program is largely a scam.

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    1. Re: Stuffed Pimento,

      ─ H1-B is a scam.─

      It's not a scam. You're the second person who says that here. It is clear Trumpistas were never serious about wanting legal immigration and that their only problem was with the so-called "illegal" type, but it is clear Trumpistas speak from both sides of their collectivist mouths.

      ─ I'm ambivalent about the high skilled workers part ─

      Of course you are...


      ─ but the program is abused ─

      Right. Abused. Because - why? You don't like foreigners?

      ─ especially by wealthy Chinese who buy their citizenship through "investment" in new business. ─

      And I guess you have a personal issue with money, SP? Or is it that you just don't like Chinese people, wealthy or not?

      Why would you say it is a problem to receive wealthy Chinese into the US, then?

      Delete

  7. Why is it I rarely see a Libertarian complaining about Whites being blocked from having freedom of employment movement into USA ?
    Yet they howl like they are being tortured when anyone suggests a halt to third world immigration.

    This nation foolishly takes in almost a million useless third worlders a year under the legal immigration program.

    If these 100,000 "highly skilled" are really that important let them come in under that program and keep the trash where they belong.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Re: FormerLibertarian,
      ─ Why is it I rarely see a Libertarian complaining about Whites being blocked from having freedom of employment movement into USA ? ─

      Maybe because libertarians are not white supremacists unlike... Oh, I don't have to say it.

      ─ This nation foolishly takes in almost a million useless third worlders [sic] a year ─

      They're clearly NOT useless.

      Delete
  8. "It is false that salaries are stagnating. The reason why tech companies are looking for workers outside the US is because there are really not enough engineers in the US."

    The illegal immigration needs to be curtailed and any Greencards in process need to be revoked. The unemployment in this country is in bad shape even for those with degrees.Anyone who believes the BS that we need Indians or whatever for tech jobs is something only a really ignorant fool could believe. I've been looking for work as an engineer for a long time now and so have many others especially since the oil industry dropped in TX. There is no 'skills' gap but picky employers with unrealistic expectations. Go check on LinkedIn and go see how many people apply for any engineering position.

    And yes, the third world trash is useless because they come from crappy cultures. Magic dirt will not make them productive law abiding people.

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    1. Re: The Lab Manager,

      ─ The illegal immigration needs to be curtailed and any Greencards in process need to be revoked. ─

      Including those of people married to Americans, I presume?

      I told you all that Trumpistas were not serious about LEGAL immigration.

      ─ The unemployment in this country is in bad shape even for those with degrees. ─

      Maybe the problem is that there are way too many people with degrees expecting to find jobs which can only be offered to people with some reasonable level of experience.

      ─ I've been looking for work as an engineer for a long time now ─

      And that's the fault of Greencard holders? Maybe the problem is that you're too proud to work as something else besides an engineer.

      ─ There is no 'skills' gap but picky employers with unrealistic expectations. ─

      Ah, NOW it's the fault of greedy employers. What's next? Who else are you going to blame before you look into the mirror?

      ─ And yes, the third world trash is useless because they come from crappy cultures. ─

      Really? If they were indeed useless, then what's it to you? The Market would have figured that one out a long time ago.

      Delete
  9. It's shocking how many commenters are disparaging freedom of association (If only a small window of it) on a libertarian blog.

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    1. H1-B is not freedom of association.

      Delete
    2. Re: Evan Smiley,

      ─ It's shocking how many commenters are disparaging freedom of association (If only a small window of it) on a libertarian blog ─

      Trumpistas are not libertarians. Be that as it may, there are libertarians who argue against freedom of association when it comes to immigration by making appeals to the protection of the local culture (a tacit yet weird concession that the local culture is just not 'superior' enough to withstand the influence from a different culture, which makes you wonder what is the point?) Other attacks on immigration are built around the lament which I call the "This is why we can't have nice things!" argument, where the reason we cannot allow immigration is because [take your pick]: Welfare, Anti-discrimination laws, Democracy, etc. which is basically what libertarians like Bionic Mosquito, Hoppe and others have argued. In other words, they argue that the existence of the State turns immigration into a violation of property rights or something - even the NAP. This is the mother of all Non Sequitur fallacies. If such were the case, then you would not be able to abandon the family home. You would not be able to marry outside the family - because that would mean having to MIGRATE to some other place which would ipso facto be a violation of the NAP, no matter how voluntary and peaceful your actions. Of course, BM and Hoppe argue that they're talking about migration through political borders, which is a tacit acceptance of the legitimacy of the State(!) All anti-immigration arguments fall because of their own contradictions. In the end, people who argue against immigration show that they're merely jealous, something you can understand quite quickly once you hear their most visceral yet most sincere attacks like "DEM IMMIGRUNTZ TAKUM ER JEBZ!" and my favorite (because it contradicts the other attack) "DEM IMMIGRUNTZ TAKUM ER WELFARE!".

      Delete
    3. @Jimmy Joe Meeker

      It's freer than blocking them from immigrating altogether.

      Delete
    4. @Francisco Torres

      I have *some* sympathy for them because it is true that they are victims of the state. It's wrong for government to force them to pay to maintain land that poor brown people are allowed to stand on if that's not what they want. In a perfect ancap world they would be allowed to found their own gated community "cultural enclaves" that Hoppe gets so excited about, and exclude whomever they wished.

      However, as they love to remind us, we don't live in a perfect ancap paradise. The concept of public property exists, and so there must be some sort of overarching policy governing its use. The two extremes are open borders on one end, and state management of the population on the other. While these are both suboptimal relative to actual private property, and while reasonable people may disagree, I'm disturbed by the number of "libertarians" who seem to be tracking towards the "state management" option, which seems decidedly less "free."

      Delete
    5. Re: Jimmy Joe Meeker

      ─ H1-B is not freedom of association. ─

      In the sense that employers and immigrants should be free to contract without the impediment imposed by the State, be it with H1-B or whatever other mechanism, then YES, H1-B is anti-freedom of association. It is more akin to Central Economic Planning.

      Delete
  10. The H-1B program socializes costs on the taxpayers, and privatizes profits for corporations. It's a redistribution of wealth program, not free market at all. Sadly, I am not surprised to see you come out in favor of this program, Wenzel.

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    1. Re: Matt@Occidentalism dot org,

      ─ The H-1B program socializes costs on the taxpayers, ─

      WHAT? No, it is not!

      ─ It's a redistribution of wealth program ─

      Oh, come on! What a gawd-damned liar you are!

      The H1-B program is merely a work visa. The person has to be sponsored by a company willing to employ him or her. Where's the involuntary wealth transfer? You're making stuff up.

      Delete