tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post3247299125111998616..comments2024-02-13T02:39:22.756-05:00Comments on EconomicPolicyJournal.com: On My Ignorance and HypocricyRobert Wenzelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14296920597416905488noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-85649829301895882522013-07-18T20:32:05.738-04:002013-07-18T20:32:05.738-04:00A 17 year old is not required to, and is in fact o...A 17 year old is not required to, and is in fact often biologically incapable of, being logical. Based on eye-witness accounts and Zimmerman's own testimony, Zimmerman acted like a murderer. He took actions that are NOT ACCEPTABLE for a civilian. I don't care what he said after the fact. I don't care how he felt. I don't care what his intentions were. I don't care about Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09258940963981640097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-60408322462377979832013-07-18T12:19:36.685-04:002013-07-18T12:19:36.685-04:00"And if he chased me..." But that's..."And if he chased me..." But that's not what happened. The 911 operator advised they didn't need him to do that, so he broke off pursuit. THEN Martin attacked him.<br /><br />I'll put my self in Martin's place, sure. <br /><br />First, I wouldn't have gotten thrown out of school for theft and assaulting a bus driver. <br /><br />Second, I wouldn't be smokingAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17608338487986741434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-32972855275212042042013-07-18T12:07:56.298-04:002013-07-18T12:07:56.298-04:00There's a big difference between "the rig...There's a big difference between "the right to be left alone" and someone watching you. Zimmerman was in a public place watching Martin in a public place. Martin, if he so chose, could have gone into his fathers dwelling and prevented Zimmerman's watching. The act of watching is not a violent act.<br /><br />Martin decided to leave his father's yard and pursue Zimmerman, Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17608338487986741434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-37903276033824779062013-07-18T12:02:02.820-04:002013-07-18T12:02:02.820-04:00"...an unarmed kid with no record of violence..."...an unarmed kid with no record of violence..."<br /><br />You may want to check out Martin's past a bit more. Fighting, assault, guns...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17608338487986741434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-18246134634621355712013-07-18T12:01:02.565-04:002013-07-18T12:01:02.565-04:00"...one caused by Zimmerman following Martin...."...one caused by Zimmerman following Martin."<br /><br />Following is a non-violent act. Punching a person for following is initiation of violence against an innocent. Also, illegal.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17608338487986741434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-11602254363186797822013-07-18T11:34:23.482-04:002013-07-18T11:34:23.482-04:00And your statement uses a fairy tale that is incon...And your statement uses a fairy tale that is inconsistent with the facts. <br /><br />"Looks like he's going to find you"<br />- what does this mean? Trayvon was "found" when Zimmerman saw him. The evidence showed Trayvon initiated the violence, as you yourself claim you also would. Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13561894838778546876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-55770543794698776792013-07-18T11:31:30.373-04:002013-07-18T11:31:30.373-04:00Anon, if you aren't against the initiation of ...Anon, if you aren't against the initiation of physical aggression , and you are opposed to defense against that aggression, then I would suggest that yes, indeed, you are "in the wrong group."Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13561894838778546876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-63618012672588753712013-07-18T05:46:04.038-04:002013-07-18T05:46:04.038-04:00For cases like this I like to imagine what I would...For cases like this I like to imagine what I would have done. If some creepy fellow followed me in a car at night, I'd fear for my life. If he got out of his car and followed me, I'd run as fast as I can. And if he chased me I'd hide. And if it looked like he was going to find me, I'd attack him first (those live-or-die instincts, right? I'd forget I'm into libertarian Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09258940963981640097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-15920554371940324602013-07-18T00:15:49.482-04:002013-07-18T00:15:49.482-04:00> There is literally no such thing as a "b...> There is literally no such thing as a "basic right to be left alone".<br /><br />That's what every goddam incipient collectivist I've ever known has always told me. <br /><br />> There is only property rights. <br /><br />Those "rights" are backed up by the power of the State. We don't have any "rights" in America until we replace the State with Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-70119073065471104632013-07-17T22:47:49.779-04:002013-07-17T22:47:49.779-04:00"Zimmerman had no idea who Martin was and it ..."Zimmerman had no idea who Martin was and it wasn't his business, as even the cops told him, to know."<br /><br />A lackey telephone dispatcher is not a "Police officer" and has no legal (or ethically based) right to order anyone to do anything at all.Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00973885100689935280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-23725989106215973392013-07-17T22:45:37.299-04:002013-07-17T22:45:37.299-04:00Zimmerman was never told "not to follow him.&...Zimmerman was never told "not to follow him." He was told by the 911 operator that he "didn't need to" follow trayvon. Fact is Zimmerman passed two lie detector tests, had a BROKEN NOSE, and trayvon only had bloody knuckles (and a hole in the chest). Sucks that Trayvon died, but that evidence (and more) is enough to doubt he was hunted and murdered by a (non) white racist.steveZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00598248557573036202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-10874341891660803622013-07-17T22:44:14.917-04:002013-07-17T22:44:14.917-04:00@widgetmaker:
To prove GZ is the aggressor, you w...@widgetmaker:<br /><br />To prove GZ is the aggressor, you would have to establish that simply following someone violates their rights. That is not the case from a libertarian perspective, as Walter Block and RW have shown above. But what about torts and legal statutes in our society? Why wasn't GZ charged with stalking, for example? Because it has long been established in common law thatEd Ucationhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15375062362847706272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-50856007139787488342013-07-17T22:43:28.755-04:002013-07-17T22:43:28.755-04:00There is literally no such thing as a "basic ...There is literally no such thing as a "basic right to be left alone". There is only property rights. Both Martin and Zimmerman were on communal property, where they both had the right to move freely. <br /><br />All the available evidence suggests Martin initiated the physical violence, and continued to do so despite Zimmerman being unable to defend himself. This is felony battery. In Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08990715051451620558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-4142520720345387082013-07-17T20:56:54.388-04:002013-07-17T20:56:54.388-04:00The basic right to be left alone is the right of M...The basic right to be left alone is the right of Martin's that Zimmerman infringed first. Zimmerman had no idea who Martin was and it wasn't his business, as even the cops told him, to know. <br /><br />Zimmerman is the aggressor. The aggressor State let him off because his crime mirrors their constant "armed man shoots unarmed kid" narrative to a tee. He's also the one Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-30566991588810870492013-07-17T20:19:33.582-04:002013-07-17T20:19:33.582-04:00FYI, Mas Ayoob agrees with you Bob.
"It’s abo...FYI, Mas Ayoob agrees with you Bob.<br />"It’s about evidence, not about “what-ifs.” The simple fact is, no matter what some want to believe and no matter how much the brainwashers of the media have twisted the facts, there is no solid evidence to support any theory other than that Martin didn’t like being watched, attacked Zimmerman violently, and was shot in self-defense by the man whose Cory Bricknerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04615059918614218841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-61660065103130871992013-07-17T19:48:40.798-04:002013-07-17T19:48:40.798-04:00Bob is backing the *facts* and how they relate to ...Bob is backing the *facts* and how they relate to libertarian principle. What is important to ask is "Who was the aggressor?"<br /><br />Any objective look at the facts shows that Martin was the aggressor. If anyone can argue otherwise based on the *facts*- not some theory about how watching someone is an act of aggression - I'd love to hear the logic behind it. <br /><br />Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13561894838778546876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-86686988310998591882013-07-17T19:19:39.422-04:002013-07-17T19:19:39.422-04:00I believe Robert LeFevre addressed this problem in...I believe Robert LeFevre addressed this problem in his comments regarding "manners" and "property boundaries":<br /><br />"When we are dealing with items that have precise boundaries and are subject to the control of the owners, we are dealing in the moral area. This gives us a concept where precision can appear. We know absolutely how far our property rights go. They go Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-8256186902741996542013-07-17T18:37:38.379-04:002013-07-17T18:37:38.379-04:00There was no evidence that Zimmerman attacked Mart...There was no evidence that Zimmerman attacked Martin. Following someone is not attacking them. Plus he had lost Martin before the confrontation.<br /><br />Zimmerman could be guilty, but it takes evidence to get a conviction. I don't know why people don't understand that.Wagshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14719718595125311688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-74741592600330893542013-07-17T18:15:46.820-04:002013-07-17T18:15:46.820-04:00There are so many legitimate cases of injustice ag...There are so many legitimate cases of injustice against blacks that deserve national scrutiny. Yet the media, politicians and professional race hustlers all choose this one, in which there is no evidence of an actual crime, and the existing evidence and eyewitness testimony supports Zimmerman's claim of self-defense. What's it all about? I suspect that, in addition to race baiting, it'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-92187512333550152972013-07-17T17:58:41.940-04:002013-07-17T17:58:41.940-04:00This whole case was about when was one of the peop...This whole case was about when was one of the people entitled to use lethal force. Even if Zimmerman was the aggressor, he was permitted to use lethal force as soon as Martin was using lethal force and became the aggressor, i.e. when Martin was on top beating Zimmerman into the ground. Martin could retreat, and had the duty to retreat. Zimmerman could not retreat and was entitled to use lethalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-70242285877572606682013-07-17T17:39:46.072-04:002013-07-17T17:39:46.072-04:00Widgetmaker, I think you need to check the facts. ...Widgetmaker, I think you need to check the facts. "Unarmed kid" may be right, but "no record of violence" is laughable.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05499331685663732972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-91176225650531104202013-07-17T17:34:06.178-04:002013-07-17T17:34:06.178-04:00Why don't you get your facts straight before c...Why don't you get your facts straight before commenting? Martin's text messages suggest he did, in fact, have a history of violence. In one such message, he complains that his opponent in a fight "aint breed [bleed] nuff 4 me, only his nose." He had gotten in trouble at school for fighting.<br /><br />And what is the significance of Martin being unarmed? Earlier this month, a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-82965651887687363942013-07-17T16:57:33.410-04:002013-07-17T16:57:33.410-04:00So in a fight between an unarmed kid with no recor...So in a fight between an unarmed kid with no record of violence and an armed adult with a record of violence and a history that suggest emotional disturbance, you're backing the latter?<br /><br />Since when have you backed the cops and the cop wannabes over unarmed civilians?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-58230911465339458312013-07-17T16:32:09.315-04:002013-07-17T16:32:09.315-04:00"It's useless if you don't want to co..."It's useless if you don't want to consider the all facts of the case, including the bruises on Martin's hands and the damage to Zimmerman's nose and head."<br /> So? thats just evidence that there was a fight, one caused by Zimmerman following Martin.<br />the incident developed between two goofballs; the wannabe cop and the punk kid with centuries of real and imagined Heathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15417060063126394938noreply@blogger.com