tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post421159809426718679..comments2024-02-13T02:39:22.756-05:00Comments on EconomicPolicyJournal.com: Will Walter Block Be On Firm Libertarian Principle If He Sues NYT? Robert Wenzelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14296920597416905488noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-65466251562021823762014-02-18T11:04:49.519-05:002014-02-18T11:04:49.519-05:00"In answering your two questions, reputation ..."In answering your two questions, reputation cannot belong to the subject of the reputation because, as Rothbard and Block point out (as well as the definition of the word), reputation does not exist within the property of the subject of the reputation."<br /><br />Really, I have no idea what this means.<br /><br />I've demonstrated that labor theory can be applied to the mental Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-38960326310645160692014-02-18T10:20:48.445-05:002014-02-18T10:20:48.445-05:00Nick,
"Up to this point Rick, we've have...Nick,<br /><br />"Up to this point Rick, we've have pretty cordial discussions.<br /><br />I think you want to mire me in bullshit, because your argument is bullshit. Before I entertain any more of your bullshit, I want a simple answer to my simple question so we can eliminate the bullshit:"<br /><br />I am not sure what was offensive about my request! No offense intended!<br /><brRick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-33326792918620799512014-02-17T09:42:38.085-05:002014-02-17T09:42:38.085-05:00"Screw brevity! Go on with it! Provide one qu..."Screw brevity! Go on with it! Provide one quote from the "HUGE amount of argument by the scholars (you) mentioned" which merely uses the word reputation!"<br /><br />Up to this point Rick, we've have pretty cordial discussions. <br /><br />I think you want to mire me in bullshit, because your argument is bullshit. Before I entertain any more of your bullshit, I want a Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-6227020156261438892014-02-17T09:06:55.985-05:002014-02-17T09:06:55.985-05:00"before I go on quoting the arguments of the ..."before I go on quoting the arguments of the two other scholars I linked as being pro-IP, and naturally labor theory as a result..."<br /><br />Screw brevity! Go on with it! Provide one quote from the "HUGE amount of argument by the scholars (you) mentioned" which merely uses the word reputation! This quote does not even have to defend reputation as property of the subject!Rick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-90857965640232433152014-02-16T15:58:03.576-05:002014-02-16T15:58:03.576-05:00Rick,
"So far you have presented zero evide...Rick,<br /><br /><br />"So far you have presented zero evidence that any of the scholars you are drawing from have ever considered reputation as property of the subject!"<br /><br />My argument Rick is the IP and reputation, both being constructs of the mind, should be treated as such in the same manner. Ipso facto. <br /><br />If you would like to present what it is that differentiatesNick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-20485394468214588192014-02-16T14:26:33.126-05:002014-02-16T14:26:33.126-05:00"Holy cow Rick! You completely missed the ref..."Holy cow Rick! You completely missed the references in our discussion to both Spooner and Locke!"<br /><br />You are correct, I did forget your fleeting mentioning of those two scholars from a week ago. However, can you provide any quotations from these men in defending the idea that the reputation of a subject is the property of that subject? Or from Basitat? So far you have Rick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-71566113080399834632014-02-16T09:05:55.718-05:002014-02-16T09:05:55.718-05:00"That being said, while you may feel that you..."That being said, while you may feel that you have "presented a reasonable & logical case with scholars that are better/smarter before me feeling the same on the basis of the labor theory of property...", you have come up short in both "presenting a reasonable and logical case" and providing scholars to support your case. I totally disagree with you regarding the Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-6341157308599756122014-02-15T23:10:18.618-05:002014-02-15T23:10:18.618-05:00"I think the above is a tidy representation o..."I think the above is a tidy representation of my viewpoints, partially to which I credit you because of our awesome discussions in hashing out some of the details I never considered before."<br /><br />Thanks Nick! I am glad that you found our discussion valuable, and I encourage you to continue hashing out this innovation regarding reputation as property...<br /><br />That being saidRick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-41321877175819835082014-02-15T10:56:31.835-05:002014-02-15T10:56:31.835-05:00Rick,
I disagree from the perspective of the labo...Rick,<br /><br />I disagree from the perspective of the labor theory of property in combination with Bastiat's specific reference to market value(which fits with the accounting discipline treatment of "goodwill").<br /><br />Our discussions have been VERY helpful to me in that while I always felt sure of mental constructs being "property"(as defined by my first the above Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-46307170645267616092014-02-14T18:46:33.113-05:002014-02-14T18:46:33.113-05:00Nick,
Any thoughts on this point?:
"You do ...Nick,<br /><br />Any thoughts on this point?:<br /><br />"You do not construct a reputation, and proceed to hand it out to others whereby they install it in their mind. The people who hold your reputation in their minds build it themselves based on your ability to satisfy their expectations- it is their own mental construct as is indicated by the definition of reputation: "...the Rick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-12776964845108208302014-02-13T21:56:53.445-05:002014-02-13T21:56:53.445-05:00One last thing in all of this, dancing around the ...One last thing in all of this, dancing around the topic of fraud, versus libel...I really don't care anymore which violation of the NAP technically is seen here because the violations in question still come down to one issue, what is 'property'.<br /><br />Block's whole problem(and Rothbard's) with the idea of libel being a NAP violation is on the basis that they do not feel Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-40971682470803772042014-02-13T19:59:35.709-05:002014-02-13T19:59:35.709-05:00One more small.edit:
"implicitly justify the...One more small.edit:<br /><br />"implicitly justify the taking" to "implicitly justifying the taking and/or damage of one's property"Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-33894615548631496582014-02-13T15:25:55.854-05:002014-02-13T15:25:55.854-05:00After all that, one small edit:
"I never sug...After all that, one small edit:<br /><br />"I never suggested they WEREN'T"Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-35464861266245328052014-02-13T12:53:27.529-05:002014-02-13T12:53:27.529-05:00(this is a continuation of the last post, the site...(this is a continuation of the last post, the site wouldn't allow for the total length, a sign I need to work on brevity)<br /><br />"I am concerned that you may be on the way to diminishing the fundamental premise on which libertarianism is built, and I do feel very passionate about it!"<br /><br />And this was the reason for my statement. I want to diffuse anything in advance. So Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-83422782536944179542014-02-13T12:50:49.365-05:002014-02-13T12:50:49.365-05:00"First, "building" and "dispos..."First, "building" and "disposing" are two different concepts." <br /><br />I never suggested they were, I'm not sure how you are considering otherwise.<br /><br />"Because subjectivity is inherent in opinion, stating an opinion is not fraud!"<br /><br />And this is a major sticking point between you and I. I draw I clear line between opinion and fraud.Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-91854418260115512412014-02-13T01:19:52.526-05:002014-02-13T01:19:52.526-05:00"If I can put my labor into building(or dispo..."If I can put my labor into building(or disposing-solely to respect your view of property in the view of Mises) of my reputation(in my mind) and thereby consider it my property, as I outlined in conjunction with the labor theory of property highlighted by the above philosophers, at what point does somebody putting their labor into destroying it become a violation of the NAP?"<br /><br /Rick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-24859698789117763662014-02-11T12:54:32.434-05:002014-02-11T12:54:32.434-05:00"Also, we agree (do we not?) that putting lab..."Also, we agree (do we not?) that putting labor into a reputation (attempting to influence in a positive or negative way) does not bestow ownership on said mental construct by the laborer- the concept still resides in the head of the individual that holds it, and is their property."<br /><br />I think we do not agree here. <br /><br />In my mind, the question is this:<br /><br />If I Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-54417220971968374212014-02-11T12:02:40.066-05:002014-02-11T12:02:40.066-05:00I do have a thought on this position (and the day ...I do have a thought on this position (and the day off, so I have time to respond!)...<br /><br />It is firmly established that reputation is a mental construct which resides in the minds of individuals, and as such, belongs to each person who holds said construct. Also, we agree (do we not?) that putting labor into a reputation (attempting to influence in a positive or negative way) does not Rick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-89545832799913682132014-02-11T09:13:34.209-05:002014-02-11T09:13:34.209-05:00"Note well, Bastiat does not offer concepts s..."Note well, Bastiat does not offer concepts such as reputation (opinion of character) and appearance (opinion of beauty) as examples in his definition of property."<br /><br />I think I have responded to it, at least to the part seeming relevant to me(which you agree to, that it is not a "proof").<br /><br />I think you and I agree that that involuntary sharing of property is Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-63544131916606230392014-02-11T08:33:28.041-05:002014-02-11T08:33:28.041-05:00Nick,
Quite a bit to respond to (apology accepted...Nick,<br /><br />Quite a bit to respond to (apology accepted), but I will give it a shot:<br /><br />"I would like to make clear that I do not advocate in any of my propositions that I claim ownership in others thoughts nor do advocate any philosophy that would do so."<br /><br />As they say in real estate, it's all about location, location, location! So when you contemplate if youRick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-84952493536718079532014-02-09T18:54:23.444-05:002014-02-09T18:54:23.444-05:00So one last thing Rick(I apologize), because I don...So one last thing Rick(I apologize), because I don't think I'm being clear enough, but I consider the "opinion" someone holds of my reputation to be separate(property?) from my reputation itself(property in my mind).<br /><br />This is why I don't consider any labor on my part to improve(or "damage/dispose") MY reputation to be 'controlling' of the opinion Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-36014411021189184342014-02-09T18:38:56.212-05:002014-02-09T18:38:56.212-05:00Rick-two more points that just popped into my head...Rick-two more points that just popped into my head that I think are relevant to the whole discussion:<br /><br />1. Reinforcing that I do not advocate for control of others thoughts in any way, shape or form DOES NOT mean that I shouldn't be allowed to try and PERSUADE(not control) those that haven't violated the NAP that I have a "good" reputation.<br /><br />So, it's Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-18068375871915286232014-02-09T17:19:30.465-05:002014-02-09T17:19:30.465-05:00Rick,
Thank you for your response, we should poss...Rick,<br /><br />Thank you for your response, we should possibly consider moving this discussion to Block's response/explanation for his consideration on suing the NYT's, as my response there(before this one) is in accordance with my response to you know.<br /><br />Regardless of the duplication, I will do so here(despite my concern that we may already be at an impasse):<br /><br />"Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-43522735675826957602014-02-09T10:37:11.608-05:002014-02-09T10:37:11.608-05:00Nick,
First and foremost, thanks for the interest...Nick,<br /><br />First and foremost, thanks for the interesting discussion! While you suggested we continue via email to prevent the boredom of others, I think debates such as these serve as an example of how we libertarians can carefully chisel away with due respect to each other in the cause of crafting a solid worldview. An endless number of outrages by the State can be highlighted- and Rick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-68880639265045164172014-02-08T13:01:04.732-05:002014-02-08T13:01:04.732-05:00No worries, I have similar constraints(4 young kid...No worries, I have similar constraints(4 young kids and a business). You can e-mail me directly if you'd like, "toolex(my first name)@gmail" so we don't bore everyone else.Nick Badalamentihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14015961786370759940noreply@blogger.com