tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post1394351603283345071..comments2024-02-13T02:39:22.756-05:00Comments on EconomicPolicyJournal.com: A Libertarian Perspective on Immigration Robert Wenzelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14296920597416905488noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-30923745296278220962014-03-12T06:07:44.854-04:002014-03-12T06:07:44.854-04:00Open borders are enforced by the state over the ob...Open borders are enforced by the state over the objections of SOME people.<br />Closed borders are enforced by the state over the objections of OTHER people.<br /><br />That is why libertarianism cannot have a view on the matter of immigration where ever and whenever it is enforced by the state. Because some innocent tax paying person's rights end up getting violated. <br /><br />The only Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-28884892309360746132014-03-11T22:01:50.238-04:002014-03-11T22:01:50.238-04:00Open borders is something that is enforced by the ...Open borders is something that is enforced by the state over the objections of the people. Welfare just exacerbates the tensions. <br /><br />Libertarianism doesn't mean that people can get along all of a sudden. Matt@Occidentalism.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395220402283030311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-80045084012633473392014-03-11T19:38:17.382-04:002014-03-11T19:38:17.382-04:00That's a great counter-argument. I'm impre...That's a great counter-argument. I'm impressed. I must revise my views immediately.<br /><br />And no, i don't speak for libertarians in general. One type of libertarian i don't speak for is people who think government can be moral for the purposes of imposing a progressive land tax (but not a progressive income tax, of course. Right, Dave? Right?).Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-20022764291038743822014-03-11T19:34:48.498-04:002014-03-11T19:34:48.498-04:00"Let's take this "logic" furthe..."Let's take this "logic" further. Government if formed by contracts. Contracts therefore are immoral.<br /><br />Logical fallacy much, Tony?"<br /><br />Yes, you did. It's a strawman.<br /><br />Saying "Government if formed by contracts. Contracts therefore are immoral." is like saying "criminals use guns. Therefor guns are immoral."<br /><br />ThatTonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-53044370378178720362014-03-11T19:30:56.664-04:002014-03-11T19:30:56.664-04:00Apparently you never heard of non-sequiturs. Or yo...Apparently you never heard of non-sequiturs. Or you wouldn't have indulged in one.<br /><br />Governments are monopolies of force and are imposed on non-compliant individuals. Monopolies of force are immoral. If they aren't monopolies of force they wouldn't be governments. The notion that governments are formed by contracts is absurd in the extreme. Have you seen any signatures on Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-72639896752487374582014-03-11T15:28:30.032-04:002014-03-11T15:28:30.032-04:00The fact that immigrants gain the right to VOTE is...The fact that immigrants gain the right to VOTE is why it's entirely within libertarian principles to support government restricting immigration, because the majority of immigrants today are hardcore statists. The enormous amount of aggression that they impose upon us is much greater than the violence of restricting immigration for the minority who would support liberty and don't deserve Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10579799109070553474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-41540263755866145472014-03-11T14:44:05.959-04:002014-03-11T14:44:05.959-04:00Holy muddled thinking Batman! I'm really glad...Holy muddled thinking Batman! I'm really glad you don't speak for libertarians in general.Dave Narbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773693145577366704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-84646892687134679592014-03-11T14:39:59.686-04:002014-03-11T14:39:59.686-04:00Let's take this "logic" further. Go...Let's take this "logic" further. Government if formed by contracts. Contracts therefore are immoral.<br /><br />Logical fallacy much, Tony?Dave Narbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773693145577366704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-8815215114254312872014-03-11T12:11:40.532-04:002014-03-11T12:11:40.532-04:00Immigration isn't a libertarian issue and &quo...Immigration isn't a libertarian issue and "freedom of movement" doesn't exist in libertarianism. There is no such right. Just as in a society where most property is privately owned, freedom of speech would also be a virtually non-existent concept (after all, when all property is privately owned you don't get to decide what to say or where to move except on your own property)Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-52605856620153745022014-03-11T11:59:35.471-04:002014-03-11T11:59:35.471-04:00A progressive land tax would require a government....A progressive land tax would require a government.<br />Government by very definition is immoral.Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-36726039640622705422014-03-11T11:58:47.833-04:002014-03-11T11:58:47.833-04:00Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggressio...Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle#Taxation<br /><br />So, check your principles.Dave Narbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773693145577366704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-51354709868914289632014-03-11T11:55:36.184-04:002014-03-11T11:55:36.184-04:00Also, abolition of government is not a libertarian...Also, abolition of government is not a libertarian principle. Minimal government is. Abolition of government is the position of anarchists and while I sympathize, most anarchists I've met are not very rational. Dave Narbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773693145577366704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-10896718187839712722014-03-11T11:51:39.609-04:002014-03-11T11:51:39.609-04:00Immigration is a distraction from the central issu...Immigration is a distraction from the central issue, which is that government has been corrupted by money power, and uses force and fraud to maintain that money power. Like anthropogenic global warming is used to distract from ground water contamination via fracking or mishandled industrial chemicals, it is a sideshow.<br /><br />The oligarchs got there by force and fraud. Force is the only wayDave Narbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773693145577366704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-23851267673978405532014-03-11T10:41:01.021-04:002014-03-11T10:41:01.021-04:00"This is all well and good, but the central i..."This is all well and good, but the central issue (that nobody seems to have put their finger on) is how to deal with "money power" that has accumulated through force and fraud (corrupt government) and concentrated in a few hands."<br /><br />This is not really topical to immigration, per se, but must be addressed due to the fallacious conclusions exhibited in your analysis...Rick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-89522334782141215032014-03-11T09:39:27.777-04:002014-03-11T09:39:27.777-04:00This is all well and good, but the central issue (...This is all well and good, but the central issue (that nobody seems to have put their finger on) is how to deal with "money power" that has accumulated through force and fraud (corrupt government) and concentrated in a few hands. All of the disagreements between various factions stem from this.<br /><br />I have held that the only solution to this is to reduce all taxes to one: A Dave Narbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10773693145577366704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-79350637035706277782014-03-11T09:18:56.050-04:002014-03-11T09:18:56.050-04:00The USSA is a slave labor camp. Although maybe we ...The USSA is a slave labor camp. Although maybe we should be greatful. We get to keep almost half of what we earn. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-22353293488632145192014-03-11T09:09:45.533-04:002014-03-11T09:09:45.533-04:00"I understand that in a private property soci..."I understand that in a private property society, we would have the right to deny people onto our property for any reason whatsoever... but how can we say that stopping immigration and freedom of movement would improve anything in today’s world, even if this was part of decentralising (sic) the state."<br /><br />Abiding by the NAP doesn't mean the world is suddenly perfect, only Rick Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11751593125225334255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-26602629169703588512014-03-11T08:54:59.958-04:002014-03-11T08:54:59.958-04:00Good start but where are do you address the slave ...Good start but where are do you address the slave labor pimps?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-2580806643815691212014-03-11T08:48:14.347-04:002014-03-11T08:48:14.347-04:00The irony is of course, that if we ever live in a ...The irony is of course, that if we ever live in a society where Govt allowed greater access into the country and taxes and Govt support were eliminated the Hispanic immigrant majority would just vote for them all back. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com