tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post5227560987406932098..comments2024-02-13T02:39:22.756-05:00Comments on EconomicPolicyJournal.com: Is Proportionality “Thick”?Robert Wenzelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14296920597416905488noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-65254772164108472152014-06-04T14:26:27.005-04:002014-06-04T14:26:27.005-04:00If Jerry Wolfgang were killed by someone other tha...If Jerry Wolfgang were killed by someone other than steveZ, steveZ could claim to be a victim due to steveZ no longer having a living Jerry Wolfgang to poke fun at. With Austrian subjective value incorporated, steveZ could determine compensation from the assailant.<br /><br />An example of the complications that will arise. What constitutes a victim and how is this decided? Wolfgang's killer Alex Zoumarasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-7223338959384549162014-06-04T09:51:09.677-04:002014-06-04T09:51:09.677-04:00I have not seen anywhere in this discussion either...I have not seen anywhere in this discussion either Gary North's book, "Victim's Rights" or the wonderful book about free market courts, "The Law of the Somalis" by Michael van Notten, edited by Spencer Heath MacCallum.Dwighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15603153065912441315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-58102116332825500252014-06-04T09:14:30.643-04:002014-06-04T09:14:30.643-04:00@steveZ Rothbard wrote that people could include i...@steveZ Rothbard wrote that people could include in a will the restitution they'd seek in case of murder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-68364097433379518292014-06-04T03:15:21.850-04:002014-06-04T03:15:21.850-04:00Let's pretend I killed jerry Wolfgang, and he ...Let's pretend I killed jerry Wolfgang, and he has no friends or family (true), there is no victim, now, to decide the punishment. What then? We can't compare subjective value scales, can we?steveZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00598248557573036202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-5857853884165848972014-06-03T23:20:44.966-04:002014-06-03T23:20:44.966-04:00OK this is getting absurd. In Wenzel's underst...OK this is getting absurd. In Wenzel's understanding of libertarian "criminal justice": A rips B's t-shirt. B is justified in killing A because B loved that t-shirt like a son. B.M. says, hold on - what does the HOA code have to say about it? <br /><br />Bionic Mosquito and Wenzel are, I think, misrepresenting the Rothbardian idea of proportionality. Rothbard said a criminal *Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-71033622860085651202014-06-03T23:15:46.406-04:002014-06-03T23:15:46.406-04:00At first glance, if we are putting "proportio...At first glance, if we are putting "proportionality" in the category of thick, then shouldn't RW's view be considered thick, as well? <br /><br />If the NAP tells us what a real crime is (a trespass against another's property), does it also tell us how to deal with those crimes? <br /><br />RW seems to think the violator loses all rights, and becomes property of the violatedsteveZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00598248557573036202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-86245321550204107562014-06-03T21:31:54.247-04:002014-06-03T21:31:54.247-04:00Bionic Mosquito has provided an insightful and wel...Bionic Mosquito has provided an insightful and well-formulated post. It also should be noted that what is being discussed is the formation of local governments, and if we develop further, right to secession, self-determination, etc., and movement well away from AnCap.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-45866687030565708092014-06-03T19:56:03.504-04:002014-06-03T19:56:03.504-04:00"Ultimately, absent a broader moral code, the..."Ultimately, absent a broader moral code, there is no society."<br /><br />I would say this is where the Golden Rule or Ethic of Reciprocity comes into play. It's simple, elegant and understood by most people.<br /><br />So in a libertarian society, could there be a shop keeper who executed shop lifters? Why not? But, what goes around comes around. And such actions would not The Screaming Skullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11288467785059854112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-52678697282378348072014-06-03T17:47:22.250-04:002014-06-03T17:47:22.250-04:00Actually, NAP creates requirement for proportional...Actually, NAP creates requirement for proportionality, as Rothbard correctly pointed out. It is easy to see that when the facts of a case are not in doubt, and when compensation is in the same kind as the loss.<br /><br />The problem with disproportionate response from the victim is that it turns the victim into aggressor. It is enough for the victim to seek compensation, and for the offender averrosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-21382218719162093532014-06-03T17:27:22.365-04:002014-06-03T17:27:22.365-04:00I think the reason why punishment in a libertarian...I think the reason why punishment in a libertarian world is such a sticky issue is because it fundamentally violates the golden rule. Punishment, beyond restitution for measurable damages or theft, is essentially an act of vengeance. People like to say it's necessary for the law to act as a "deterrent," but studies suggest otherwise. Strong punishments don't necessarily deterLibertarian Newshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09978065788530967251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-70555259850466377602014-06-03T17:15:01.943-04:002014-06-03T17:15:01.943-04:00Punishment would most likely be agreed on by secur...Punishment would most likely be agreed on by security and or insurance services under contracted with the individuals. <br /><br />If the victims were to have jurisdiction to decide on the punishment there would be many issues. In Macy's case their business concerns would keep the punishment in proportion. But what if an individual property owner that had the apple stolen by a child were a Alex Zoumarasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-47148526083078163732014-06-03T17:12:54.429-04:002014-06-03T17:12:54.429-04:00I think this is a very interesting and important a...I think this is a very interesting and important area to be discussing topics, i.e. what libertarianism is NOT. Too often critics of Libertarianism use the tactic that problem X isn't addressed appropriately (to me) by Libertarianism, therefore it fails and shouldn't be used or further examined. Calculus solves issues pertaining to rates, Geography to aspects of location and terrain, and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-29475119975173103272014-06-03T17:07:33.408-04:002014-06-03T17:07:33.408-04:00The answer lies within your question: "If th...The answer lies within your question: "If there is no universally accepted 'rule of law', the free flow of capital would slow to a trickle." Certainly that's true! Therefore, the various communities would find it in their interest to establish norms between themselves. The the rules across communities don't need to be completely homogeneous but a sufficient subset ofMark Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17964001152455407190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-34316784224635588782014-06-03T16:55:02.923-04:002014-06-03T16:55:02.923-04:00All rules are agreements between people. A liberta...All rules are agreements between people. A libertarian society will only exist when most people are libertarians. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758330678390419129.post-10656038029341045892014-06-03T15:53:39.794-04:002014-06-03T15:53:39.794-04:00I touched on this yesterday in the original thread...I touched on this yesterday in the original thread's comments (On what authority?).<br /><br /><For now, I will suggest that a “society” must “determine what is proportional” (or, maybe acceptable?) if that society is to thrive, but that this process and determination may be beyond or outside of the NAP.<br />...<br />If you want to live here or visit here, you must agree to abide by theseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com