Wednesday, July 11, 2012

A Response to Stefan Molyneux by David Gordon


In an article published last week, I reviewed, in not altogether favorable terms, Stefan Molyneux's book Universally Preferable Behavior.
This review has aroused many of the author's numerous admirers to sound and fury: never in my long experience as a reviewer have I encountered anything to match it. Molyneux has now himself joined the fray. He has been good enough to take notice of my article and has offered a detailed response.
With characteristic stubbornness, I remain largely unrepentant and find rather in the author's comments additional support for the criticisms that I directed at his book in my review.


Before turning to his remarks, I ought to clarify one misunderstanding. It is one that has ensnared several of the commenters on my review, and, judging from his remarks at the end of his response, possibly Molyneux himself. It was never my purpose to deny that there are universally binding norms — far from it. Instead, what I tried to do in the review was to examine whether Molyneux has successfully arrived at a way of establishing these moral requirements. I regret, by the way, that I did not accurately state his distinction between "moral rules" and "ethics," though fortunately for me this mistake leaves intact my arguments against him.
Thus, when, at the end of his response, Molyneux avers in evident triumph and to the applause of his admirers that my article was based on accepting UPB (universally preferable behavior), I have no wish to deny this. Once more, what concerns me is the success of Molyneux's arguments: I am not a moral skeptic.
The heart of the disagreement between Molyneux and me concerns his conception of universality for moral rules. He holds that all such rules must refer to all human beings without reference to particular times or places. He says in his response that he has argued for this requirement, but in fact he hasn't. He has simply repeated his requirement a number of times.
He is quite right that moral rules cannot make arbitrary distinctions; but it does not follow that any mention of a particular class of people or circumstances is arbitrary from the moral point of view. I suspect that Molyneux thinks that it does follow because he has not taken note of an equivocation. If moral rules are objectively true, then they are the same for everybody, i.e., everyone who reasons correctly ought to arrive at the same set of rules. It cannot be, if rules are objectively true, that "theft is wrong" is a claim that I ought to recognize as true but you ought to think is false. But the objectivity of truth, taken this way, does not imply that the content of the rule can make no reference to particular classes.
How then do we discover what is an arbitrary distinction? This, I suggest, requires that we assess proposed rules case by case. "It is permissible to kill redheads" makes an arbitrary distinction; but "one ought to be grateful to those who have conferred benefits on us" does not. Another nonarbitrary moral rule that I commend to Molyneux's attention is "one ought to respect one's parents."
Though to my mind universality is the fundamental point at issue between us, Molyneux says a number of other things that I shall endeavor to answer. He objects to my saying that he has made a "claim" and to my speaking of "his sense" and "his strictures" about various things that he said. These expressions, he says, wrongly imply that he is talking about his subjective preferences: he is in fact arguing for what is objectively true.
When I spoke of his "claim," I meant only that this was a statement he had made that I wished to examine. In my language, use of the word "claim" leaves open whether what is being claimed is objectively true: it is not intended to suggest that we are in the realm of mere subjective preferences. The language that I'm using is called "English."
Molyneux objects to my speaking of someone who wants to discover the truth, instead of someone who is arguing: again, the former expression is subjective, he says. I don't agree, but I am happy to speak of arguing for the truth, as my criticism of him remains the same. The criticism, which he ignores, is this. If you are trying through argument to discover the truth, you need not be engaged in a debate with an actual opponent, who holds mistaken views that you prefer to correct. You can argue entirely alone, by trying to find out the consequences of premises that you think are true. The search for truth, then, need not commit you to an objective preference to correct mistaken views of others.
He says,
Rape cannot be UPB because sexual penetration is only rape if it is unwanted — thus one man must want to rape, while the other man must desperately not want to be raped, which means that both of them cannot simultaneously value rape as universally preferable behavior.
Suppose that A is trying to rape B. A wants to rape B but B does not want to be raped. This is entirely consistent with both A's and B's thinking that A is morally obligated to rape B. It isn't a requirement of logic that B want A to do whatever A is morally obligated to do.
The argument against rape that I found the most philosophically interesting in his book is a different, though related, one. If rape is morally required, then acting against rape is evil, i.e., as Molyneux defines this, morally proscribed. But in order for rape to occur, the victim must resist the rapist. If the victim does not resist, then rape has not taken place.[1] Thus a moral rule that required rape could be put into practice only if evil behavior, i.e., resisting rape, takes place. The purported rule, then, is inconsistent with everyone's acting as morality dictates.
This argument depends on a questionable premise. If you are obligated to do something, then, plausibly, you can't also be obligated not to do it. (Some philosophers think that people can sometimes have inconsistent obligations, but I don't want to appeal to that view here.) But it doesn't follow from this that everyone else is obligated not to resist what you are doing. Suppose that you are obligated to take care of your child, who needs a medication that only I have on hand. I'm not obligated to give it to you or to sell it to you: perhaps, e.g., someone else also needs the medication. If I do not let you have the medication, I'm not by that fact alone engaging in morally proscribed behavior.
Molyneux says, "This is one of a few arguments against 'theft as UPB' in the book — a thief is both violating and affirming property rights when he steals, which is a logical contradiction."
This argument doesn't work. A thief is someone who takes what doesn't belong to him. He wants what he steals, but this does not entail that he thinks he is the legitimate owner of the pilfered goods. To take something is not to make a moral claim to own it. Sometimes people do what they acknowledge that they ought not to do. The thief, one presumes, would not want someone else to take from him what he has stolen; but that does not entail that he would deem someone who did this a violator of his property rights.
Against my assertion that he offers no account of how we gain title to external physical objects, he says that I have ignored this:
Since we own our bodies, we also inevitably own the effects of our actions, be they good or bad. If we own the effects of our actions, then clearly we own that which we produce, whether what we produce is a bow, or a book — or a murder.
I am surprised that Molyneux calls attention to a sentence that is evidence of a gross confusion on his part. You cause the effects of your actions and are responsible for them, but it does not follow from this that you "own," in the moral or legal sense, these effects. What does it mean to "own" a murder? Molyneux also confuses a causal and a moral statement when he says that my article accepts that "I [Molyneux] exercise 100% property rights over the creation of the book Universally Preferable Behavior: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics (he refers to it as my book, and my arguments etc.)." Certainly Molyneux wrote the book; but that by itself implies nothing about who ought to have property rights in it.
Sometimes Molyneux seems not to grasp that an objection has been raised to him. In response to my challenge to what he said about a 50 percent property rule, he says,
Well, since property rights are a subset of ethics, they must be universal — if universalizing 50% ownership causes ever-declining ownership, clearly the theory has some problems, to say the least. The fact that 50% ownership cannot be rationally sustained is entirely my point. His issue here seems to be with mathematics, not my book.
But, whether rightly or wrongly, I denied that universalizing 50 percent ownership has this consequence. The 50 percent rule is that if I acquire an object, I own half of it. This rule does not prescribe that this half share may be reduced by another half, this quarter share by another half, etc. That is another rule. Molyneux ignores my objection and repeats what he said in his book. One can only echo one of his followers. "Well done, Stef."
I regret that I misunderstood what Molyneux meant by "forced association" in reference to public schools. He says that he meant people are forced to pay for public schools, not that students are forced to attend them. I of course withdraw my criticism.

In my review, I made many harsh statements about Molyneux. (By the way, the title, "The Molyneux Problem," was not a contemptuous reference to Molyneux and his work. It was a joking reference to a famous philosophical problem, much discussed in the 18th century.) Why did I do this, he asks, rather than confine myself to his arguments? Was I trying to "poison the well"?
I do not think so. My remarks were simply an evaluation of his book; for better or worse, I try in my reviews to assess the quality of the book I'm considering. My comments were not based on personal animus toward Molyneux. I'd heard of him; but before I read his book, I didn't know his work. I suspect that had I been complimentary to the book, he would not have complained that I had "perfumed the abattoir."
David Gordon covers new books in economics, politics, philosophy, and law for The Mises Review, the quarterly review of literature in the social sciences, published since 1995 by the Mises Institute. He is author of The Essential Rothbard, available in the Mises Store. Send him mail. See David Gordon's article archives.
You can subscribe to future articles by David Gordon via this RSS feed.

The above commentary was originally posted at Mises.org

23 comments:

  1. "By the way, the title, "The Molyneux Problem," was not a contemptuous reference to Molyneux and his work. It was a joking reference to a famous philosophical problem, much discussed in the 18th century."

    This is ingenious! Now all the bluffing pop-philosophers who complained about the title of Gordon's initial piece have been exposed as complete boobs!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Haha, "boob" is actually a reference to "booby hatch", which was a slang term for prisons, and the low quality people therein.

      Anonymous was just jokingly referencing Molyneux's followers being inmates!

      Now all the bluffing pseudo-philosophers who thought it was an insult have been exposed as....

      Delete
  2. I think the real disagreement Gordon has is that Stefan's UPB represents a threat to Christian morality. Stefan is an atheist gaining more and more popularity in the liberty movement. Mises Institute Christians are threatened by this, and feel obligated to crush his arguments.

    Gordon writes:

    "How then do we discover what is an arbitrary distinction? This, I suggest, requires that we assess proposed rules case by case. "It is permissible to kill redheads" makes an arbitrary distinction; but "one ought to be grateful to those who have conferred benefits on us" does not. Another nonarbitrary moral rule that I commend to Molyneux's attention is "one ought to respect one's parents."

    Gordon has God in mind here. That "one ought to be grateful to those who have conferred benefits on us" is quite obviously a Christian morality, which holds it is possible for "all humans to universally practise the behavior of exalting God and be grateful to His mercy and benevolence." This is not "arbitrary" because it includes all humans, right? The "one ought to respect one's parent's" is also straight out of the bible. These "escape" Molyneux, of course, because Molyneux is an atheist.

    This is the real motivation behind the criticism folks. The Christians at the Mises Institute are soft on Rothbard's ethics because he was apologetic to Christianity. Hoppe's ethics were attacked by Christians Murphy and Callahan because Hoppe isn't so apologetic and his ethics do not have any inclusion of God. It's why the Mises Institute has a tiff with Rand's atheist ethics. It's the same thing with Molyneux. Notice the pattern yet?

    Atheist ethicists who are individualists represent a threat to the Christian libertarians of the Mises Institute, and so there is always this distancing and antagonism taking place between them and atheist libertarians. The Christians at the Mises Institute go after atheist ethicists who are a part of the liberty movement, so as to distinguish themselves from them, and hope that their readers don't "escape" God.

    Ergo, Gordon writes

    "I ought to clarify one misunderstanding...It was never my purpose to deny that there are universally binding norms — far from it."

    No, of course it was not your intention to give the impression that you don't believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior. Far from it! Worshiping Jesus is a universally binding commitment, isn't it? Molyneux "failed" because he "failed to take into account Jesus."

    ReplyDelete
  3. Now to the actual substance of Rev. Gordon's criticisms. In a word, he simply fails to understand UPB.

    Rev. Gordon writes:

    "The heart of the disagreement between Molyneux and me concerns his conception of universality for moral rules. He holds that all such rules must refer to all human beings without reference to particular times or places. He says in his response that he has argued for this requirement, but in fact he hasn't. He has simply repeated his requirement a number of times."

    [Yes, because Earth isn't the only "place" is it? Our time on Earth isn't the only "time" is it? We have to include Jesus in Heaven too.]

    On the contrary, UPB does contain arguments for universality. Gordon just keeps claiming they don't exist. What more can be said? That "they don't exist" because there is no God there? That the universality arguments must be mere stipulated "requirements"...in order to safeguard Christianity? If Rev. Gordon bothered to read the section titled PREFERENCES AND UNIVERSALITY which Molyneux prefaced with "The next question thus becomes: are preferences purely subjective, or can they be universal?" and the section ARGUMENTS AND UNIVERSALITY which Molyneux discusses Hoppian presuppositions involved in debating itself, then it can only be dishonest to then claim that there is no argument for universality.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Rev. Gordon quotes Molyneux:

    "Rape cannot be UPB because sexual penetration is only rape if it is unwanted — thus one man must want to rape, while the other man must desperately not want to be raped, which means that both of them cannot simultaneously value rape as universally preferable behavior."

    To which Rev. Gordon responds:

    "Suppose that A is trying to rape B. A wants to rape B but B does not want to be raped. This is entirely consistent with both A's and B's thinking that A is morally obligated to rape B. It isn't a requirement of logic that B want A to do whatever A is morally obligated to do."

    UPB is not a "thinking" ethic. It is a BEHAVIORAL ethic. The moral claim "A is morally obligated to rape B" is not a universal behavioral ethic. It doesn't matter if B believes, or thinks A is morally obligated to rape B. What matters is whether or not the implied behavioral norm associated with the thinking is logical and has empirical validity.

    With the moral claim that A is obligated to rape B, A and B would have different obligations. One, that A is obligated to rape B, and two, that B is obligated to consent to the rape. But that is a contradiction, since rape by definition includes absence of consent to sexual penetration, so rape simply cannot be a universal ethic. If B thinks rape is universally moral, or at least that A is morally obligated to rape him, then he can't possibly reject A's advances as a behavioral norm associated with that thinking, or else he would be acting against the morality Gordon says he could think of adhering to.

    It is almost as if Gordon is opining that as long as people merely think they're not being robbed, or merely think they're not being raped, that somehow the behaviors taking place are associated with universalizable moral claims that justify theft and rape.

    Gordon responds to this reasoning by saying:

    "This argument depends on a questionable premise. If you are obligated to do something, then, plausibly, you can't also be obligated not to do it...But it doesn't follow from this that everyone else is obligated not to resist what you are doing."

    Of course not, because that would threaten Christianity.

    Seriously though, has Gordon not understood the universality aspect of UPB even at this late hour? Molyneux isn't saying that B and only B's lack of consent means rape is not universalizable and thus not UPB. If "everyone else" is included, then the same logic between A and B would apply to them as well. It's not a question of asking whether others are obligated not to resist what you are doing, it's whether or not the morality that is associated with what A is doing to anyone, B or anyone else, is universalizable. A and B are used for explanatory purposes. They are supposed to represent any conceivable interaction between two people.

    Gordon is divorcing A and B from "everybody else", when he should take note that A and B are supposed to represent the totality of all possible interactions between all possible combinations of two people, at any given time, at any given place. Gordon has to keep in mind that when he considers A and B in UPB arguments, he has to also keep in mind every other person in the world at the same time.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Gordon quotes Molyneux:

    "This is one of a few arguments against 'theft as UPB' in the book — a thief is both violating and affirming property rights when he steals, which is a logical contradiction."

    Gordon responds:

    "This argument doesn't work. A thief is someone who takes what doesn't belong to him. He wants what he steals, but this does not entail that he thinks he is the legitimate owner of the pilfered goods. To take something is not to make a moral claim to own it. Sometimes people do what they acknowledge that they ought not to do. The thief, one presumes, would not want someone else to take from him what he has stolen; but that does not entail that he would deem someone who did this a violator of his property rights."

    It is baffling how Gordon can say "thief" and accept its meaning, but then deny the property implications associated with it. It's like Gordon is saying "the thief, who stole the PROPERTY, is not necessarily implying he is any owner of any property because he might think to himself that he is not owner."

    Well goodness gracious, do I cease to be owner of something I bought on the basis that I forgot I owned it and my mind is not in line with what it OUGHT to be? Notice the ought there. Gordon is implying UPB is a theory of what people ought to think. But it's not. It's a theory of what people ought to DO in social situations. Gordon keeps sloppily flipping back and forth between thinking to oneself and social behavior. UPB concerns the latter and ONLY the latter.

    Again, UPB is not a morality of merely THINKING to oneself. It is a morality of BEHAVIOR in social situations. Gordon is implying that Molyneux's UPB holds that thieves have to think they are owners of the property they take. Not so! A thief can think he's Jesus and not owner of anything, and it won't make a difference to the fact that his ACTIONS of stealing are him performatively declaring himself owner.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Gordon continues:

    "Against my assertion that he offers no account of how we gain title to external physical objects, he says that I have ignored this:"

    Molneux: "Since we own our bodies, we also inevitably own the effects of our actions, be they good or bad. If we own the effects of our actions, then clearly we own that which we produce, whether what we produce is a bow, or a book — or a murder."

    Gordon: "I am surprised that Molyneux calls attention to a sentence that is evidence of a gross confusion on his part."

    Yes, how dare Molyneux claim ownership over his body and soul when it belongs to Jesus? Christian libertarians at the Mises Institute are against violations of JESUS' property, namely us human beings and all material belongings. That's the reason they are against theft. Theft is stealing from one of God's children, and stealing from one of God's children is stealing from God himself.

    Molyneux is only re-iterating the Lockean proviso, the same proviso that Rothbard used in his libertarian ethics, which of course are not attacked because Rothbard defended the libertarian Christians against the wrath of Rand and other atheists, and for that the Mises Institute Christians are forever grateful. But Molyneux's usage of Locke is just insulting, because he's an atheist.

    "You cause the effects of your actions and are responsible for them, but it does not follow from this that you "own," in the moral or legal sense, these effects."

    If we are going to ask who does own them, and universalize it, then yes, of course the creator of an effect owns those effects. That is the only universalizable ethic associated with ownership. The moral claim "The first person to get there after the initial producer produces something, other than the producer, is the owner" is arbitrary and not universalizable. For why not the 3rd? Or 4756th? How would one even count such a thing?

    Gordon is merely claiming "it doesn't follow". He of course does not go into detail on what does allegedly follow, because then he'd have to say "For it is also possible that God owns you and your possessions, and you didn't even consider that!" Then the gig would be up and we could all go home.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Gordon asks: "What does it mean to "own" a murder?"

    It means exercising absolute exclusive control over it.

    "Molyneux also confuses a causal and a moral statement when he says that my article accepts that "I [Molyneux] exercise 100% property rights over the creation of the book Universally Preferable Behavior: A Rational Proof of Secular Ethics (he refers to it as my book, and my arguments etc.)." Certainly Molyneux wrote the book; but that by itself implies nothing about who ought to have property rights in it."

    Sure it does. Ownership follows from being the causal agent.

    It's exactly why Gordon believes God owns the universe and owns our souls. If God is the causal agent for the universe, then God owns the universe. That's why Gordon denies human OBJECTIVE ownership over themselves and things. Objective ownership has no room for God.

    "Sometimes Molyneux seems not to grasp that an objection has been raised to him. In response to my challenge to what he said about a 50 percent property rule, he says,"

    Molyneux: "Well, since property rights are a subset of ethics, they must be universal — if universalizing 50% ownership causes ever-declining ownership, clearly the theory has some problems, to say the least. The fact that 50% ownership cannot be rationally sustained is entirely my point. His issue here seems to be with mathematics, not my book."

    Gordon: "But, whether rightly or wrongly, I denied that universalizing 50 percent ownership has this consequence. The 50 percent rule is that if I acquire an object, I own half of it. This rule does not prescribe that this half share may be reduced by another half, this quarter share by another half, etc. That is another rule. Molyneux ignores my objection and repeats what he said in his book."

    Again Gordon is ignoring the universalization.

    Imagine a lawnmower. If two people were present, then each would claim 50% of it. This is where Gordon stops. The 50% rule universalized would mean that EVERYONE would claim 50% ownership over it. So A, B, and C, would each claim 50% over the lawmower. That isn't logically possible. One can't have three 50% claims to the same property. One could only have three claims totaling 100%, or 33% on average. If 300,000,000 people are introduced, then it would be as logically fallacious. Gordon's error is that he believes the universalization is somehow the introduction of new rules, when it isn't, not the UPB framework.

    ReplyDelete
  8. "Another nonarbitrary moral rule that I commend to Molyneux's attention is 'one ought to respect one's parents.'"

    I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that, because I'd have ruined my shiny new keyboard. Well played :>

    ReplyDelete
  9. The whole "David Gordon is not a Christian" problem would seem to be a trifle problematic for our friend UPB.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's so freaking funny. I didn't think Gordon was a Christian but I wasn't sure.

      Delete
    2. As is the "Mises Institute promotes Hoppe's work" problem.

      Delete
    3. Yes, it is soooo problematic that I got the particular denomination wrong. Everything changes because of that.

      "You're wrong! It's spelled Y-a-h-w-e-h, not Z-e-u-s!"

      Delete
    4. As is the "Mises Institute promotes Hoppe's work" problem.

      Not his ethics.

      Delete
    5. What are you tasking about? You can find a ton of material on Hoppe's work on ethics at LVMI.

      Delete
    6. It is posted yes, that wasn't the issue at hand. I am talking about whether or not it is put on center stage, promoted, and advertised. It isn't.

      ----------------

      Here is more evidence that this was religiously motivated:

      This is a brief excerpt of an article written by David Gordon reviewing an atheist's logic. The author was George H. Smith and the book Gordon is reviewing is titled: Atheism, Ayn Rand, and Other Heresies. By George H. Smith. Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus, 1991. 324 pp.

      In referring to the author Gordon describes Smith's position on the non-need of an atheist to disprove the existence of god;

      "An atheist, in his usage, need not deny that God exists: The absence of belief is sufficient. "An atheist is a person who does not believe in the existence of a god''.The issue to Smith is much more than semantic; he thinks a crucial philosophical issue is at stake. Since an atheist need make no claims about God, it is up to the believer to prove his case. "The theist, or god-believer, asserts the existence of a god and must prove the claim. If the theist fails in this task, reasonable people will reject the belief as groundless. Yet this will not do, for the following reason. Suppose one defmes an "antitheist" as someone who denies that God exists. A theist is then someone who lacks this belief. He need not believe that God exist: He need only fail to have the antitheistic belief that it is not the case that God exists. The burden of proof here is on the antitheist-the theist is within his intellectual rights in refusing to become an antitheist. If Smith's argument works, so does this one."

      I never see an atheist argue like this. This switching of the burden of proof argument for God, is what theists always propose.

      ---------------

      I just wish that Gordon and the rest of the theists at the Mises Institute would just be HONEST and UPFRONT on their true motivation. I can see through it, and I know a few others do as well.

      Delete
  10. Pretty much all I got out of UPB's string of blithering comments was that he has something against Christians and Christianity. Get over yourself, dude.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't even bother reading such long diatribes. In my experience, if someone can't express himself in a paragraph when writing a comment on an article, I find it a waste of time to try to decipher his ramblings.

      Delete
    2. Pretty much all I got out of UPB's string of blithering comments was that he has something against Christians and Christianity. Get over yourself, dude.

      I have nothing AGAINST Christianity.

      You're too sensitive "dude".

      Delete
  11. This kinda reminds me of the article where Bob Murphy demolishes Hoppe's argumentation ethic:
    http://mises.org/journals/jls/20_2/20_2_3.pdf

    Now may be I don't understand these issues enough, but aren't both Hoppe and Molyneux trying to establish an objective theory of value? Doesn't this go against the core of Austrian economics, which subscribes to the subjective theory of value? We are all libertarians that accept the non-agression axiom, but it is an axiom. You either accept it (and all it implies) or you don't. If you accept it, we can argue about the logical consequences. But we can't argue about whether or not the axoim is true, since it is a subjective value judgement.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Demolish? I don't think so. Have you read Kinsella's rejoinder? Murphy and Callahan don't even get Hoppe's theory correctly.

      Delete
  12. I agree with UPB's comments about Mises.org and its religious backbone. This backbone, although great at defending freedom and thus a natural ally of Austrian Economics, cannot be used to create an intellectual edifice that properly explains how the world works. For that you need an evolutionary approach, the proper understanding of how Natural Selection evolved both the biological as well as the socioeconomic orders. In other words, you need F.A. Hayek/Menger/Spencer.... As Hayek wrote: “We understand now that all enduring structures above the level of the simplest atoms, and up to the brain and society, are the results of, and can be explained only in terms of, processes of selective evolution…” . It should be no surprise that much of Hayek's work on social evolution is absent from mises.org. The Christian foundation of many libertarians might have greatly helped defend freedom, but I think this sort of infighting between the atheists(more evolutionary-minded) and moralists/religious was somewhat inevitable.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Thanks freeman. I have your suggestion.

    ReplyDelete