Friday, June 28, 2013

LOOPHOLES: How to Avoid Paying for Obamacare Insurance AND Also Avoid the Penalty

Merrill Matthews at Forbes explains:
[T]he IRS has no authority to go after someone’s assets or wages in order to collect the penalty.  It only has the authority to deduct the penalty from a person’s tax refund at year’s end.  It won’t take long for people to figure out how to fix that problem by trying to ensure they have only enough withheld to meet their tax obligation.  Those who are uninsured and successful at hitting the tax mark will face no effective penalty.
Here's another loophole (via Matthews)
 But just because millions of Americans refuse to get ObamaCare-qualified coverage doesn’t mean they will be uninsured.  There are policies available now that would work very well for the ObamaCare avoiders.

Some of these policies are built on a life insurance platform rather than health insurance — which, incidentally, means they are outside ObamaCare’s long arm of regulatory control.

The customer buys a life insurance policy that pays up to $250,000 upon death, which I believe is the current maximum available for this kind of policy.

Along with life insurance coverage the policy includes what’s called a “critical illness” component.  If the policyholder needs, say, surgery, the insurer writes the policyholder a check based on a schedule.  Let’s say, for example, it’s $10,000.

The policyholder has $10,000 in hand to pay for the medical care — or, frankly, anything else since the money belongs to the insured — but the value of his life insurance benefit is reduced by the same amount, to $240,000.  Thus the critical illness component simply accelerates the benefit payout.

One existing policy pays 100 percent for heart attack, stroke, life-threatening cancer, major organ transplant, kidney failure, Alzheimer’s and paralysis, among other medical conditions.

The policyholder could also be part of a provider network that provides a discounted rate for the care — one of the most important current benefits of having health insurance.

How much would such a policy cost?  For one company, a 30-year-old male would pay $1,438 a year, and for a 50-year-old male it’s $3,234.

And remember, this isn’t just health coverage.  In the event of a tragic accident or illness, whatever is left of the benefit goes to the estate upon death.

If ObamaCare proves to be the train wreck that Democratic Senator Max Baucus fears — who, incidentally, is largely responsible for its current structure — then millions of Americans from all income categories may decide to opt out.  Many will still want something, at least until they get a major medical condition whereupon they can then go back into ObamaCare coverage.  And they can still keep their life insurance policy along with its critical illness benefits.  Good times!

72 comments:

  1. When the citizens are offered "No Choice" from the central authority then it is a loosing proposition and everyone is about to get "F'ed". Choice is the Free Market and Invisible Hand (Adam Smith) at work. Allowing each to prosper and Fail based on each citizens good or bad decision is BEST for the nation. I may not value the things that you do and will have to answer for my decisions. You are content and I am content. Let the individual make a choice and Answer for it....I ask "where else will motivations and society indications prove out good decisions vs. bad decisions. The choice for health in physical maintenance with healthy life style is not a government program and you can't legislate healthy citizens....it is an individual choice.

    The promise of a safety net and no one fails in America is a bureaucratic cluster that will prove to be corrupt, wasteful and Controlling the citizen which is not what our founding fathers designed. The central authority prefers sheeple...the question is are we smart enough and independent spirited enough to reject programs sold to us on "what is good for all" and "ideal for the masses".

    If Obamacare is so great then why are elected officials exempt (along with unions, etc)?

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    1. Well when you are wrong, man do you get it wrong. Please point out to me where they are exempt? Not to mention if you are going to blame someone about bringing that up, maybe you should actually blame the Republican Chuck Grassley for actually introducing it. Not Obama.

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    2. this is exactly why america is in the shit because the two major parties point fingers about who is to blame when they both agree on dumping huge numbers out of medicare but can't honestly go the voters and admit their failure then spending the savings on their own special friends.

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    3. personally, i prefer tightening propositions as opposed to 'loosing' ones (is that even a word?).

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  2. Just moved my entire savings account from USD to Bitcoin. Obamacare is going to collapse the USD by around December 1st 2014. After i transfer all funds, ill be closing my bank accounts. I wont pay Obamacare no matter what. By paying the fees means your are acknowledging and accepting the ACA.

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    1. And you are just another doomsayer thinking that the world will end. Let me guess you have an arsenal in your basement with enough food because you think Obama is going to destory the world?

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    2. I am a healthy 47 year old who has been paying my own insurance since I became unemployed in July 2012. Let me be clear, I do NOT collect unemployment nor do I collect welfare. I am barely getting by on the little money I make until I can find a job that fits my experience, education, skills and qualifications.

      I am a healthy individual and pay a high-deductible policy which costs me $144/month. I was just informed that this policy will no longer be in effect as of Jan 1, 2014 and my best choice is to take an insurance option that will cost me MORE THAN DOUBLE and cost me MORE out of pocket expenses. This is insane. I will not be buying into the ObamaCare ridiculous nonsense and will find as many loopholes as I can to stay protected ... health wise and away from any government bureaucratic nonsense.

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    3. Are you from any of those Republican controlled states that didn't expand their medicare? Because if they didn't expand their medicare they don't really get the exchanges and subsidies. You should blame your Republican state run legislation not Obamacare.

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    4. Sadly Chris Postel is one of the many brain-washed Americans who are making all of this insanity possible. Obama-care is positioned to allow the destruction of the Great USA. All people like Chris can do is point fingers, however, soon Chris and the likes of him/her will suffer the same fate as all of us

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    5. That all you got Roy? Ok I have a question for you since you seem to be a smart guy but I have been wrong before, What in Obamacare will be the destruction of the USA? I have asked a couple dozen different people about that and they haven't given me ANY real answer about why its destroying this country. So please enlighten me.

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    6. Chris, why don't you explain why Barry, who is the self proclaimed standard bearer for the poor and disadvantaged, is using a Heritage castoff policy that raises the age of eligibility for government paid for healthcare, boots said poor and disadvantaged back to the wicked health insurers whose barry approved policies including drug rehab and and lactation services which come at a much higher price for the Barry's P and D.

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    7. Because You dumbasses signed the same bill into Law in Massachussetts in 2006 with Mittens, where they absolutely loved the idea but when it comes to the rest of the country its suddenly a bad one? Everything in the ACA is the same thing thats in the MassHealth healthcare bill. Last I heard they had 99.3% of the population of a rather populous state in the union and they still manage to get the majority of people signed up and with insurance. What is wrong with drug rehan and lactation services being covered under insurance? And I would like to see where you are getting the higher price. Let me guess you are either looking at the Healthcare.gov site BEFORE subsidies or you are living in one of the many Red states that are discouraging their own think tanks ideas, where they didn't get the expanded medicaid? Its not the Law's fault that the Supreme court struck down the requirement of having states join it. I am still asking you guys what is so bad about the law that it is going to be the end of the USA. Please tell me.

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    8. Chris-

      No one on this site- ZERO- supported Romneycare.

      Please don't start an argument that exposes your ignorance in the first sentence!

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    9. REALLY? So the 99.3% of people in Massachussetts HATE Romneycare? I mean the Heritage Foundation was loving everything about it when it was introduced in that state but now that a Black man introduced it to the country it is now the worst thing in the world? I ask again what in the law is going to be the end of the USA or is going to make the debt go up? So far that is all I see you guys touting on about but have yet to see ANY hard facts about what is wrong with it.

      You wannabe TEA partiers are nothing but giant jokes anymore. How does it feel to be talking puppets for the Koch Brothers?

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    10. IMHO Chris Postel is the troll who really should be banned.

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    11. Rick - he's the dumbass that thinks we are "Republicans." Let him live in his own little of brain-dead politics.

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    12. "REALLY? So the 99.3% of people in Massachussetts HATE Romneycare?"

      Oh and apparently you can't read. Rick wrote, "No one on this SITE [read, SITE] supported Romneycare." He didn't write STATE. Who's the dumbass?

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    13. So Mr Anonymous, why should I be banned, why do you think I am trolling? And Richie, if you aren't Republicans, then what are you? Libertarians? They don't exist past state legislators. At least Real Libertarians. Republicans are trying to use that label so they can look like moderate candidates but in reality they are nothing but Fascists.

      Libertarians want small government and they want laws that if they don't effect anyone else's liberty then its a good law. So basically all of these Republicans claiming to be Libertarians like Rand and Ron Paul pretty much aren't Libertarians. Simply because they want to ban Gay marriage, they want to ban Abortion, they want to keep drugs illegal. Pretty much everything that would make them Libertarian, they don't like.

      As for your second comment. You are still the dumbass Richie. I don't care if you don't like Romneycare. Its working, so will the ACA if the Republicans would actually enroll in it. Its ok though. Its pretty much GUARANTEED Hillary gets the Whitehouse in 2016, no matter what candidate you idiots run. The only reason you have the House of Representatives is the gerrymandering you guys did to win. So enjoy that while it lasts.

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  3. Chris Postel must be in Obama's payroll.

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    1. You do realize that this insurance mandate idea has been a Republican idea since the 80s right? It was a HERITAGE IDEA, the only reason the Republicans are pissed off is because they didn't finish it. Romney was the one that put it into place in Massachussetts and its working great there. 99% of people have insurance in Mass. They are doing anything and everything to try to stall the program by not actually enrolling in it. Now if we were actually going to go all the way through with single payer? Yeah everyone would be all over that but blame the Republicans for being in the insurance company's pockets. But the word socialism scares you ignorant idiots.

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    2. Yep, him and Jerry Wolfgang are on the payroll.

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    3. So you have nothing? Got it. Learn to debate. Otherwise you look like even more of a fool.

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    4. Chris Postel and his hateful name calling is referred to as "debate." As a paid Obamabot operative, he gets paid to be angry and demean, then gets pissed when people don't take the bait.

      They must pay well.

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    5. So you still have nothing? And calling you a fool means I am angry because you are a fool? A debate is when you at least TRY to back up your position. Not sit there and project your hatred.

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    6. The Obama camp must pay its trolls by the word. Very lucrative.

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    7. Still going on about this? Refute anything I say. Otherwise you are just a republican troll.

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    8. See, in an Obambot's world, you are either Republican or Democrat. For the simple-minded like Chris Postel, it is either red or blue. Nothing else.

      Oh, and how sweet that a paid Obama zombie comes strolling in and then has the temerity to call someone a troll. I wonder if he gets paid under the table?

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    9. Chris-

      Please address the problems with the website, the fact that 2 weeks after launch that ZERO people have been able to enroll, and the massive increase in bureaucracy means tens of thousands of government drones...I mean employees who will produce nothing but chaos and drive health care prices higher.

      If not, Ms. Postel, kindly STFU. If you think the government is competent enough to administer health care, then why not allow them to control the food chain, the electronics industry, the construction of new houses...oh, wait- the USSR tried that, and failed.

      Fucktarded simpletons like you need to pull your head out of your ass and look at the REAL WORLD!

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    10. If it walks like a republican and quacks like a republican it must be a republican. If you claim to be a libertarian, just FYI none of those exist in major office anymore.

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    11. Chris Postel never disappoints. In his world, if you are not a Democrat, you are a Republican. Oh, and don't claim to be a libertarian, because not one holds a major office. Horror! As if that is the goal.

      Politics are always for those who cannot think for themselves. Simpletons.

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    12. Sorry but when you have the talking points of pretty much all republicans and have no point in your posts much like all republican arguments then I go back to the same statement I just made in the last post. If it walks like a republican, and quacks like a republican, then in must be a republican.

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    13. Also for Rick Fitz, Government healthcare seems to work for all of the European Countries. The only reason we didn't get a single payer healthcare system for EVERYONE was the insurance companies lobbied congress to stop paying for their yachts and private planes.

      So much for the comments being moderated on this site. I don't know why they even need moderation if they are going to just let stuff go like that.

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    14. Chris Postel again comes through in the clutch. Evil Republicans! Because that's the only other choice, right? I mean, I can't think for myself, so I just rely on the talking points I'm given.

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    15. When you have something to contribute to the conversation let me know, otherwise you have nothing STILL.

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    16. ....Government healthcare seems to work.... seems being the operative word, because I came for a country with a single payer healthcare system, it was always over budget and there was waiting lists to get on waiting lists.

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    17. I've contributed plenty, which is that I exposed you to being a stupid partisan hack. In your mindless world, it's all Democrats vs. Republican, but I'm not surprised since most people can't think critically anyway. You're living proof of that.

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    18. Chris, heqlth care in the EU "works" unless you get really sick, or need surgery, or need advanced treatment, or you are very old, or chronically ill

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    19. So let me guess you are going to claim to be a libertarian. Wake me up when we actually get a libertarian candidate. I haven't seen anything from you that is anything but projection and trolling.

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    20. Ah, he comes through again! I swear, this is so easy. You're the one projecting, simpleton. You're the one that wants a candidate. I do not. They are all parasites. However, I do not expect you to understand that since you cannot think for yourself. No run off and get your daily talking points from the Obama camp.

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    21. I don't need a candidate. People like you will guarantee that this country remains under a democrat president for the foreseeable future. I would say the next 20 years or so and by 2040 states that were deep red like Texas will be swing states thanks to the latino vote. Not to mention the ever growing war on women from Republicans and Republicans trying to destroy voting rights for anyone but white Republicans. So I guess I should be saying thanks to the projecting troll.

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    22. Great talking points, simpleton! You do your job very well. The Obama camp found a diamond in the rough when they found you.

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    23. Keep projecting. It suits you very well. Don't have an argument? Try to attack my character when I can provide sources to back up my claims while you do nothing but make fun of yourself. Thanks.

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    24. You're welcome, simpleton. Hey, I hope that Democrat vs. Republican game continues to work at so well for you. It's done wonders for you so far. Damn you're smart.

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    25. Keep proving my point. And as far as that Democrat vs Republican game? Sure it will continue to work because with any other stupid party that claims to be 'conservative' like the tea party then they will just keep being a non-factor.

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    26. "Sure it will continue to work because with any other stupid party that claims to be 'conservative' like the tea party then they will just keep being a non-factor."

      LOL as if I give a shit. Oh, I guess I just proved your point again. Right, simpleton?

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    27. You should. The Tea Party is destroying the Republican party. Just look how badly you guys turned out after this shutdown. 70% of people polled blamed the Republicans. 54% of the country doesn't want you to have control of any part of the congress and a potential of 59 of 61 seats up for re-election has a chance of turning blue now with this bullshit.

      Enjoy being a nonfactor.

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    28. "The Tea Party is destroying the Republican party."

      I hope they do!

      "Just look how badly you guys turned out after this shutdown. 70% of people polled blamed the Republicans. 54% of the country doesn't want you to have control of any part of the congress and a potential of 59 of 61 seats up for re-election has a chance of turning blue now with this bullshit."

      All that gibberish means to nothing to me. You're the one that gives a shit about elections. I do not. Why should I? I end up getting screwed by simpletons like you anyway. One of my favorite quotes: "Democrats and Republicans - two different wings on the same bird of prey."

      "Enjoy being a nonfactor."

      Oh I am a factor, just not in the mindless political game that you love to play.

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    29. I have yet to see anything from you that is nothing but a nonfactor. It should all mean something to you since you claim that I am a simpleton. Democrats are actually trying to help the little people compared to the Republicans where they help their pocketbooks and nothing else. They want to get rid of regulations so they can claim to 'self-regulate', you see how well that turned out with the banks failing and with the West, Texas Fertilizer plant explosion. Yeah we should really let them self regulate.

      Let me know when you actually try to make SOME sort of argument.

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    30. "Democrats are actually trying to help the little people..."

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Holy shit, is that what you have? Leftist talking points that are worn out? You really are not very smart. And you say I don't have an argument! LOL!

      Oh, and if you believe we have or had a "free market" that is/was self-regulating, then there is absolutely no hope for you. You need to get out of your leftist bubble.

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    31. I have evidence. You have nothing.

      I never said we had or have a free market. I said that when regulations get removed then we have what happened with the banks on Wall Street. They took away the regulations limiting them from giving loans to questionable people and then taking everything when they don't have the money to pay their loans.

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    32. "They took away the regulations limiting them from giving loans to questionable people and then taking everything when they don't have the money to pay their loans."

      Who are "they"? Those that you claim to help the little people? Try this:

      "Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits."

      http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/business/fannie-mae-eases-credit-to-aid-mortgage-lending.html

      Bush, the fanatical laissz-faire capitalist:

      "The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."

      But Barney Frank, the one of the champions of the little people, said this:

      "'These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis,'' said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ''The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.''

      http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html

      So, there ya go. The financial crisis was brought on by an attempt to drastically reduce regulations. It certainly wasn't caused by government intervention or cronyism and the Federal Reserve's easy money policy.

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    33. @Chris Postel,
      I notice that your arguments were "Your (R) state didn't expand Medicare", "This was a republican idea from the 80's).
      First of all, why should Medicare be expanded? So you can use the excess monies from it to subsidize these ridiculous premiums from the new Healthcare reform? Doesn't that seem like a misappropriation of funding. Should those monies not be used for the people who are uninsured and unable to afford their own coverage?
      As far as the whole 80's republicans idea thing...Who cares? I don't care who's idea it was, I know who enacted it (without a single republican vote). I know who's administering it, and I know who's royally screwing it up. I don't like it, I don't want it, and I don't need it. I have a family to be concerned about and they WILL not come second to the uninsured people throughout this country. The premiums I have been introduced to will take 1/4 of my bi-weekly paycheck. The premiums are high enough to buy a fairly decent used car, and I cant afford one of those either. I was doing just fine without the government changing things for the worse. I repeat: I don't like it, I don't want it, and I damn sure do NOT need it.

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    34. Wow I didn't realize someone could be this FUCKING stupid. You just made my argument for me. Subsidies do go and fund the people that can't afford their own coverage. That is what the medicare and medicaid expansion is. You don't get any subsidies if you make 400% of the poverty level. So EVEN YOU probably would get subsidies. Dumbass.

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  4. Chris,

    Suggest you read the article on the two Obama Kool-aid drinkers like you that just got their new health insurance bills.... (see summary below). This is just plain old redistribution of wealth: Marxism 101, and you are a sheep headed for the slaughter. I fell sorry for you. You seem intelligent, yet so naive. Too many years of Marxist teaching being fed to you in the educational system I suppose.

    Cindy Vinson and Tom Waschura are big believers in the Affordable Care Act. They vote independent and are proud to say they helped elect and re-elect President Barack Obama.
    Yet, like many other Bay Area residents who pay for their own medical insurance, they were floored last week when they opened their bills: Their policies were being replaced with pricier plans that conform to all the requirements of the new health care law.
    Vinson, of San Jose, will pay $1,800 more a year for an individual policy, while Waschura, of Portola Valley, will cough up almost $10,000 more for insurance for his family of four.
    “I was laughing at Boehner — until the mail came today,” Waschura said, referring to House Speaker John Boehner, who is leading the Republican charge to defund Obamacare.
    “I really don’t like the Republican tactics, but at least now I can understand why they are so pissed about this. When you take $10,000 out of my family’s pocket each year, that’s otherwise disposable income or retirement savings that will not be going into our local economy.”
    Both Vinson and Waschura have adjusted gross incomes greater than four times the federal poverty level — the cutoff for a tax credit. And while both said they anticipated their rates would go up, they didn’t realize they would rise so much.
    “Of course, I want people to have health care,” Vinson said. “I just didn’t realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally.”

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  5. That last line about "paying for it personally" is classic socialist "liberal" delusion! Love it!

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  6. Chris, Have you ever heard of the "Calculation Problem" of socialism? Let's say gov collects or creates some money for a program. How many MRI vs X Ray machines do you buy? How many Lifeline helicopters? Liam Neeson's wife had to be driven 3.5 hrs from her skiing accident to a Montreal hospital. Price competition in a free market is required for the most efficient allocation of resources. Socialism also has an Incentive problem. Spending other people's money is different than spending your own.

    Saying a bad idea was RepubliCON's, and not DemocRAT's, isn't a convincing argument in favor of said idea. It does suggest there is no difference between the two parties, however.

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    1. Who is to blame for the increase in insurance prices? Not Obamacare, it would be the insurance companies not the ACA. The prices were exploding and they are slowing now with the ACA.

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    2. "The prices were exploding and they are slowing now with the ACA."

      Prove it.

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    3. Yes Chris, I agree with Anon@3:47PM; Prove it. I'm calling bullshit because what you are trying to assert defies basic logic and economics.

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    4. Chris, thank you for having the balls to come back and discuss your comments. Unlike JWolf, you don't seem to be a cowardly submoronic troll.

      Please try to "unpack" the current costs of health care from the administration costs (most docs need at least a $30hr/wk administration nurse JUST TO FILE PAPERWORK)

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    5. http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/health-insurance-premiums.aspx

      And I quote from the article if you are too lazy to read it: This year's rise in premiums remains moderate by historical standards. Since 2003, premiums have increased 80 percent, nearly three times as fast as wages (31 percent) and inflation (27 percent).

      In 10 years, only 10 short years, insurance premiums have skyrocketed 80%. They have only gone up 4% from last year to this year. Last years prices were $15,745, this year it was $16,351 for a family of 4.

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    6. "Despite Lower Than Expected Premiums, Exchange Consumers Will Face High Cost-Sharing Before the Out-of-Pocket Cap"

      Linked to in the article that you provided:

      http://www.avalerehealth.net/expertise/managed-care/insights/despite-lower-than-expected-premiums-exchange-consumers-will-face-high-cost

      How about this gem from the above piece:

      "“Furthermore, there is a risk that patients could forego needed care when faced with high up-front deductibles.”

      Good to know.

      How about young men in Nebraska? They get to see their individual policies quadruple:

      "Worst off was Nebraska, where the difference between the cheapest plan under the old system and under Obamacare was 279 percent for men, and 227 percent for women: more than triple the old rate."

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/

      The driving force behind the increases in insurance premiums in government intervention. If the government mandates that insurance companies must cover certain procedures AND must cover those with pre-existing conditions (which means it's no longer insurance), then of course they must raise premiums. The insurance companies must re-coup those expenses somehow. They cannot just print money.

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    7. @Chris Postel,

      See Richie on Oct 13, 3:01 p.m.? He's on the right track. You'll have to do better than sleight-of-mind.

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  7. as I have just turned 65 im now on medicare, I pay $104 a month for it,not bad, since the late 70's I've been taking vitamins,herb's etc I work out 2-3 times a week trying to stay healthy as much as possible so I won't get as sick as I use to before,seems to me this whole health care thing would push ppl to at the very least look to take better care of themselves what ever it may be they do,there are always unforeseen accidents,no one can predict that,i think forcing ppl to buy health insurance is wrong,i don't like our current president,but, obamacare is the law, I would encourage anyone to look for any loophole or advantage they can to save money without putting themselves in danger of no health insurance at all, and also, stop the finger pointing and blame,we're all in this together,our biggest enemy is in Washington and the polices they are shoving down our throats!!!

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  8. So in places like Massachussetts, where this exact law was enacted by good ol boy Mittens Romney, where they have over 99% of the population has insurance because of this same law it works REALLY well, where it has reduced their insurance premiums by hundreds a year, where it makes it so those people that can't afford their insurance still get proper medical care and that they don't go bankrupt from some unforseen illness like cancer. Especially since medical bankruptcy is 62% of total bankruptcies, we have a major problem with out of control medical bills thanks to people not being able to afford insurance.


    BUT, HERE IS THE BIGGEST BUT YOU WILL EVER SEE. We should have just gone straight to single payer healthcare. But you dumbasses think the word Socialism is a bad one.

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  9. This whole discussion is a great example of government created conflict. When governments give up their monopoly on territory and have to compete for customers, Chris will buy his government services from a provider that includes health insurance and Richie will buy his from one that doesn't. Unless all providers include it (or don't), because of market demand. Until then, lets smack each other around with insults. That's the way, uh huh, uh huh, they like it!

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    1. Nah its just that some people don't understand that they would either be saving money or be getting insurance for the first time. They just think they are above it until the get sick or have an accident, then they will be begging for insurance.

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    2. Three of the poorest members of my family lost full time jobs with benefits and are now limited to 29 hours per week and have no benefits because of the ACA. Two of them had been with Bob Evans for more than 15 years. I don't ride motorcycles because they are dangerous. You think we should pay for the accidents of people who choose dangerous activity. The ACA was written by insurance lobbyists and sticks it to insurance companies by forcing people to buy their product. Checkout insurance company stock prices since it passed. It is longer than the bible, but also has gems like this: "Section 1302. (b) Essential Health Benefits.—(1) IN GENERAL.—Subject to paragraph (2), the Secretary shall define the essential health benefits ...." We do agree about this: some people don't understand.

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    3. So some shitty company is blaming this on the ACA. Let me guess they make record profits every year and still can't afford to pay their employees a living wage. If its that Bob Evans restaraunt that I just googled then they are a shitty company.

      The other half of this comment, I don't even know what you are talking about you don't have to ride motorcycles to be in an accident. The only way you would never have an accident is if you never do anything, you never leave your house and you never walk. Accidents can happen at any time or anywhere. Just living in general can be dangerous.

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  10. The difference between ChrisP and JerryW is that Chris is courteous enough to come back and continue to expose his ignorance and inability to reason. JWolf is a drive by troll, CPostel is a good example of the sub morons that still support socialism/communism and cheer people like Chavez and Castro.

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    1. Fitz,

      With all due respect, it seems to me that the real difference between CP & JW is that CP seems to have a real hatred for his fellow man and is woefully, and perhaps willfully, ignorant. JW just seems woefully ignorant. I may be mistaken though.

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    2. So I have ignorance and hate my fellow man for wanting people to keep their insurance if they get sick and hit their lifetime caps, or that people that couldn't get insurance prior to this get it so they can actually not you know declare bankruptcy which is 62% of the personal bankruptcies? Maybe you should come out of your tiny little bubbles where you seem to not understand that this law will most likely HELP your neighbors and family members because they obviously didn't pass a simple economics course to know that our country's healthcare costs keep going up because of the people that don't have insurance are passing on the bills to people that do. No matter how you think about it, before you were getting their bills if they couldn't pay for it. Why do you think our costs on surgeries and medical procedures cost 5-30 times as much as other countries? Its the same procedure? Its because of the medical bills of the people that either declared bankruptcy or they were too broke to pay for it. Now that you actually know you are paying for it, now you don't like it? Come into the light and learn a few things.

      I mean I thought you guys were the Christian/Catholic party. You know where you are supposed to love thy neighbor and help the poor and unfortunate? I bet you couldn't even define socialism Rick Fitz without even actually looking it up.

      Again I ask you to please enlighten me as to why this law is so damn horrible that you think it is. You watch too much Hannity because he tells you it is terrible? I am still waiting. So try me.

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