Saturday, October 8, 2011

The Hate Free Markets Protesters Up-Close

Over at LRC, David Kramer posts this great analytical photo of 'Occupation Wall Street' protesters, many of whom are anti-free markets. If they were really consistent, they would be using products coming out of that communist heaven, North Korea. I wonder how that would work for them.

The problem is not corporations. It is corporations that are in cahoots with government to prevent competition, limit choice and hamper free markets.

Click on picture for larger view.


  1. The picture is funny, though I am asking myself in how far is the argument implied different in quality to the alleged hypocrisy of libertarians to use government roads?

  2. There is no hypocrisy; see Walter Block, et al.

  3. Skylien the answer is because we are forced into the system. We have no choice but to use their roads thanks to government monopoly. I have no choice but to call 911 when i am getting burglarized because the state has a monopoly on protection. I have no choice on joining social security and medicare I am forced into it. Like Wenzel says if they truly believed socialism was the answer they should move to N. Korea.
    We truly believe Freedom and liberty are the answer and I think the USA is possibly the last place that libertarian ideas have a shot of getting implemented.

    Doesn't make us hypocrites using their roads I think it shows how coercive the govt can be.

    You can check out the book below its good reading:

  4. While I think most of these people are socialists. The people of Communist Russia had products produced by the state. It doesn't mean they couldn't protest against the state while eating the state produced food or wearing the state produced clothes.

  5. @skylien:

    As Anonymous 9:34am pointed out, we do not have a choice but to use government roads. Do any other type of roads exist?

  6. It's government. Railing against the corporations is a waste of time.

  7. To the first commenter who was asking about how this compares with libertarians using "government" roads:

    The comparison falls flat on its face when you consider who actually paid for those government roads and how that wealth was originally generated.

    It was the private/free/voluntary market.(Well, what is left of it.)

    It was all the private companies, big and small, who created products and services which others purchased, as well as all the folks employed in those businesses, etc.

    Then the government comes into the picture and forces these same people to relinquish part of their earnings.

    In other words, the wealth was generated in the free market through voluntary and peaceful transactions which is then taxed and used to build these "government roads".

  8. @skylien:

    "quality to the alleged hypocrisy of libertarians to use government roads?"

    Roads are a legal monopoly so no choice. It's ironic to me that had the gov't never taken over roads, that our transportation system and indeed city layout would be today much more like the anti-sprawl advocates want.

    Gov't empowered sprawl through control of roads, eminent domain takings and zoning regs. Without those measures, our cities would be much more dense (more European-like) and we'd be using trains (maybe even PRT by now).

    So sprawl is another unintended consequence of gov't intervention in society.

  9. @ the answerers

    Thanks for the answer, but that was not my point. I consider myself a libertarian, and I also agree that it is not hypocritical to use government roads.

    But is it different for the left? This picture charges that the left is hypocritical because they use products from corporations while at the same time being against them. Yet I am sure they think, that they have no choice either. In their thinking they believe that they are forced to take corporate products because the evil capitalist system gives them no chance to buy products from government, or coops or whatever they think of would be ideal...
    They would agree that there is competition but capitalistic competition that doesn't allow for, I don't know, social fair production without exploitation and destruction of mother earth etc...

    Yes they are wrong, because they don't understand scarcity, economic calculation, value theory etc... but I don't think it makes them hypocrites from their own standpoint. To be a hypocrite you yourself have to hold an opinion that you do not apply consistently to all cases where it actually applies. So from their own standpoint and understanding (and this is what counts if you make the charge of being hypocritical) they are clearly not hypocritical. You can not take someone else's standpoint to paint them hypocrites. That is not fair.

    Summarized, they for sure feel as trapped in a system as libertarians do, don't you think?

    I don't want to be kind to them, I only want to be fair.

  10. I am not saying that people on left are not hypocritical in general. I am only speaking specifically of this issue.

  11. skylien, in the interest of fairness, Wenzel did not make an argument that implied that the OWS protesters were hypocrites. He presented a hyperbolic, hypothetical imperative that was intended to lampoon the protesters. Furthermore, hypocrisy involves deception and is not just an inconsistency between one's beliefs and actions.

  12. anon 11:29 - right on!

    skyline: I often ask socialists I know why they don't pool together and open some kind of cooperative factory to prove their ideas can work. that would provide competition and choice right? oh wait...competition and choice run completely counter to their ideas...well what if they started a cooperative import company that purchased 'humanely' produced goods from Venezuela, Cuba, n. Korea, etc so these protectors could righteously wear drab, coarse clothing and whatnot? probably because it's too much work. and at the end of the day, most of these people really just wanna get laid!

  13. To build on skylien's point what have you all to say about the (increasingly frequently levied) charge that all libertarians should move to Somalia where they can truly live in a "Libertarian Paradise"?

  14. @skylien, I hope you'll watch the embedded video:

    Criticize least the people who take what is given, despise most the monster with guns who takes what is yours by force.

  15. But they do have a choice in everything they buy. Buy it or do not buy it.

  16. @ anon 2:49
    "To build on skylien's point what have you all to say about the (increasingly frequently levied) charge that all libertarians should move to Somalia where they can truly live in a "Libertarian Paradise"? "

    Being a libertarian is about liberty. Liberty is rights with responsibilities. You cant have liberty unless your willing to respect other peoples liberties and property. That is not happening in Somalia.

    Without knowing much about Somalia and i assume those that charge libertarians should go move there don't much about it either.
    I think we can ask a few questions.

    1) was Somalia a better place when the so called government was intact?

    2) Would Somalia be any better if a govt was to become in place tomorrow?

    3) is Somalia improving as we speak or getting worse?

    I would also like to point out that an all out collapse of the govt in the usa right now would cause riots and panic. Years of a govt being in place has a certain mind state engraved in everyones mind. So i advocate a slow transition from statism to liberty.

    I think the USA would be better without the federal reserve. But if we were just to abolish it in one shot there would be alot of pain to be dealt with. So i think the transition out of govt would be better then a one week collapse like Somalia


    Interesting analysis of the OWS protests, the "slick" videos that have come out supporting their cause, and the apparent connection to the CIA financed "Arab Youth Movement" that fomented the "Arab Spring".

    I fear these young socialists are being "useful idiots" to people with far more despicable and dark plans.


  18. Strangest #OWS video EVER! You really must see it to believe it- it's like they've turned into Pod People!!!

    I don't know the impetus, background or any details on this YouTube video (I found it on Drudge) but it's of Rep John Lewis of NY at some WEIRD hippiesque meeting a few days ago. Everyone in the crowd repeats everything the guy with the bullhorn says...for like 7 minutes, while trying to introduce the CONgressman. He obviously gets freaked at the cult-like atmosphere, and leaves.

    These people, while I support their initiative to stop Wall St (and by extension, the Federal Reserve) are drunk on the Kommie-Kool-Aid.


  19. @ Head Stomp

    If this was his sole intention then fair enough. But read his post again. It is very easy to interpret it as a charge of pure hypocrisy, if Wenzel asks why don't buy from North Korea. Lefties won't agree that NK represents their ideal (or even close) system they want. So I think he should make it more clear especially for the people of the left where his argument goes.

    But I disagree that hypocrisy has to involve deception. If I think all people ought to do a certain thing except me because I think I am special, then I do not need to hide that I think I am special. I just would be a hypocrite but not deceptive.

    @ anon 2:39 and 5:04
    I understand what you mean, and I asked them this question also lots of times. They will answer that this competition is "magically" rigged by the power of capital and private property (of course Marx explains how this works, just they cannot explain it...). They mostly don't even understand what capital/private property stands for. But they still are only wrong/ignorant on these points but not hypocritical.

    @ anon 2:49
    Especially read the comments there by Michael J Green, EmperorNero, Autolykos and Sieben.

    Thanks for the nice video. I absolutely agree with that.