To be fair, the mother did a pretty stupid thing at the start when she drove away after the cop directed her to turn off the vehicle. She also tried to run away when he was trying to detain her. She did a number of stupid things that caused tension and emotions to escalate on both sides.
And with the son starting a tussle with the officer, the use of force escalated. It was probably still excessive use of force (especially by the backup), but at the same time I'm not sure what I would've done in their shoes. The mother and son clearly broke laws (including attacking an officer) and then they tried to evade / run. How do you stop them? Is there a standard operating procedure for that?
We have no idea why she was speeding either. There may be a reason. She may have told the cop where she needed to be and requested an escort if there had been better relationship between citizen mother and her servant and protector policeman. Obviously she was in a hurry. We just don't know why. She was not a physical threat to the police. They had a video record of her license which tied to her address so her speeding ticket could be mailed or they can visit her at home later. If she doesnt show up in court they deduct her penalty from her state tax refund or add it to her tax due. They have all the information they need just from the license plate. Absolutely no reason for force of any kind.
Everything in this video seemed within reason until the shooting, although it looked like he was shooting at the tires.
I believe the illogical reasoning within the libertarian community goes something like this: speed limits shouldn't exist, therefore this woman shouldn't have been pulled over and was within her right to drive away and/or resist arrest. Hence, the cops were completely wrong from the start.
I'm a libertarian too, but you guys need to grow up.
Yeah I know, right? The police are always justified is some people's mind. Shit, even if they're shooting at a van full of children! So many sick and evil minds out there, eh?
Funny, he calls himself a libertarian and ten proceeds to endorse the police state. Yeah, ok. LOL!
That shooting cannot be justified in any way, even if the cop was "trying to shoot the tires," which isn't taught in the police academy. The only time your weapon should be fired is if there is an imminent threat, which there was not. The van was not driven at any of the officers. The van was fleeing. It did not pose a threat to anyone's safety at that time since they already had the mother's name and IT WAS A VAN FULL OF CHILDREN. Yes, the mother was wrong for driving away the first time but the situation could have been handled better by the officer(s). Is this what we want from police? This is horrendous and should not be tolerated under any circumstances!
"speed limits shouldnt exist" thats a straw man sir. a real libertarian says speed limits are fine, as long as its the proper owner of the road that dictates it. not the govt. Read Rothbard.
What the video shows is a three ring circus of stupidity and social decay. The mother is irrational and irresponsible in her behavior. Her son is impulsive and foolish and the cops are out of control and trigger happy as usual. Where is the father of this family? Is mom married to a welfare check? Who is paying for all of those fatherless children?
I'm a lawyer and my mantra is to never challenge an officer by the roadside. The fact is he has a gun on his hip and lots of people on radio call who will see solely his side. Courts may not be perfect or free from corruption, but you will get a fairer hearing before a judge. Police using deadly force because someone was running from them is wrong and against the law, however having it out at the roadside is as foolish as flagrantly breaking some law and (correctly) saying it is contrary to the Constitution. Lots is dome now contrary to the Constitution and many people suffer loss of property and liberty notwithstanding that.
I think those kids certainly got an education into the power and authority of the police state.
ReplyDeleteIf he was in Iraq or Afghanistan the thug would've gotten a medal. My guess he'll get a paid vacation until the media quiets down.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, the mother did a pretty stupid thing at the start when she drove away after the cop directed her to turn off the vehicle. She also tried to run away when he was trying to detain her. She did a number of stupid things that caused tension and emotions to escalate on both sides.
ReplyDeleteAnd with the son starting a tussle with the officer, the use of force escalated. It was probably still excessive use of force (especially by the backup), but at the same time I'm not sure what I would've done in their shoes. The mother and son clearly broke laws (including attacking an officer) and then they tried to evade / run. How do you stop them? Is there a standard operating procedure for that?
We have no idea why she was speeding either. There may be a reason. She may have told the cop where she needed to be and requested an escort if there had been better relationship between citizen mother and her servant and protector policeman. Obviously she was in a hurry. We just don't know why. She was not a physical threat to the police. They had a video record of her license which tied to her address so her speeding ticket could be mailed or they can visit her at home later. If she doesnt show up in court they deduct her penalty from her state tax refund or add it to her tax due. They have all the information they need just from the license plate. Absolutely no reason for force of any kind.
DeleteIt's best to teach them when they're still young.
ReplyDeleteI think I've posted this before but I think it bears repeating that this scenario is EXACTLY why Andy NEVER let Barney carry a loaded gun.
ReplyDeleteEverything in this video seemed within reason until the shooting, although it looked like he was shooting at the tires.
ReplyDeleteI believe the illogical reasoning within the libertarian community goes something like this: speed limits shouldn't exist, therefore this woman shouldn't have been pulled over and was within her right to drive away and/or resist arrest. Hence, the cops were completely wrong from the start.
I'm a libertarian too, but you guys need to grow up.
You are basically justifying a cop shooting at a mother with 5 kids in a mini-van while lecturing others to grow up.
Delete#realitycheck
@pittsburghlibertarianNovember:
DeleteYeah I know, right? The police are always justified is some people's mind. Shit, even if they're shooting at a van full of children! So many sick and evil minds out there, eh?
Funny, he calls himself a libertarian and ten proceeds to endorse the police state. Yeah, ok. LOL!
Note that Anonymous (@ 11:10AM) said everything looked within reason UNTIL the shooting.
DeleteThat shooting cannot be justified in any way, even if the cop was "trying to shoot the tires," which isn't taught in the police academy. The only time your weapon should be fired is if there is an imminent threat, which there was not. The van was not driven at any of the officers. The van was fleeing. It did not pose a threat to anyone's safety at that time since they already had the mother's name and IT WAS A VAN FULL OF CHILDREN. Yes, the mother was wrong for driving away the first time but the situation could have been handled better by the officer(s). Is this what we want from police? This is horrendous and should not be tolerated under any circumstances!
ReplyDelete"speed limits shouldnt exist" thats a straw man sir. a real libertarian says speed limits are fine, as long as its the proper owner of the road that dictates it. not the govt. Read Rothbard.
ReplyDeleteWhat the video shows is a three ring circus of stupidity and social decay. The mother is irrational and irresponsible in her behavior. Her son is impulsive and foolish and the cops are out of control and trigger happy as usual. Where is the father of this family? Is mom married to a welfare check? Who is paying for all of those fatherless children?
ReplyDeleteI saw exactly the same thing. Complete lack of impulse control all around.
DeleteI'm a lawyer and my mantra is to never challenge an officer by the roadside. The fact is he has a gun on his hip and lots of people on radio call who will see solely his side. Courts may not be perfect or free from corruption, but you will get a fairer hearing before a judge. Police using deadly force because someone was running from them is wrong and against the law, however having it out at the roadside is as foolish as flagrantly breaking some law and (correctly) saying it is contrary to the Constitution. Lots is dome now contrary to the Constitution and many people suffer loss of property and liberty notwithstanding that.
ReplyDelete"Courts may not be perfect or free from corruption, but you will get a fairer hearing before a judge."
DeleteHa. That was funny. Got any more good jokes like that?
While one might get a better hearing in front of a judge, it is important to remember that they side with the government thug most of the time.
Delete