I guess the idea that Roderick Long's thinking about is that since libertarianism was historically based in classical liberalism, which was on the left side of the left-right spectrum. Murray Rothbard documented this in his book For A New Liberty and his essay "Left and Right", which argued that libertarianism is not conservative and the equivalent of the conservative.
However, Murray Rothbard himself acknowledged that libertarianism is a "political theory" and nothing more. Acknowledging that libertarianism is true leftism (like Rothbard did) is not the same as trying to thicken it and make it murky, like most of these left-libertarians (even the genuine and sincere ones) are doing. "Thin libertarianism" is perfectly compatible with viewing libertarianism as a "true leftist" belief based in classical liberalism, but ultimately we libertarians and anarcho-capitalists transcend left and right.
You are quite right and especially insightful is the fact that Rothbard a social conservative by some magnitude yet it never occured to him that this is some way was in conflict with libertarianism being on the "left". If anything he emphasized that liberty was probably better preserved by more traditional societal values. Hoppe has followed the same track.
I just call myself an anarchist and or a "non-aggression principle" follower and leave it at that. Libertarianism connotes, I believe, some acknowledgement of a minimal State. And once that accommodation has been made, there's really no way of stopping the slippage.
The Left-Right labels are as arbitrary as the Red-Blue States labels. It originally referred only to the left and the right sides of the aisle in Parliament to distinguish the Tories from the Whigs. But the Tories and the Whigs themselves kept changing their principles, not to mention the addition of the Labor and Socialist parties, to the point where its a meaningless, misleading label.
I was playing nice with this crowd for a while but it is clear what their agenda is now. The final straw was calling pretty much everybody associated with the Mises Institute racists. Oddly enough Roderick Long himself is associated with the Mises institute. It is clear they want to bring cultural marxism into libertarianism and label anybody who disagrees with them a bigot, misogynist or a "brutalist". I hold socially liberal views, so I was willing to hear what they had to say at first. What a mistake! I don't think it is a coincidence that they attacked the Mises institute. The Mises institute contains the most principled and accomplished academics in the movement. Get rid of them and suddenly you can redefine what libertarianism is and isn't. These people are cultural supremacists, they hate people who live in a conservative fashion. The cat is out of the bag, we know what they're about, lets drown the cat in the river. A philosophy must be able to stand up to scrutiny, libertarianism is no different! I think this will make the ideas of liberty must stronger!
Thank you Anon. Sometimes you just can't take the leftist delusion out of the person. In the end their left ideological sickness will always win the day.
"The Mises institute contains the most principled and accomplished academics in the movement. Get rid of them and suddenly you can redefine what libertarianism is and isn't."
Yup. In neon lights yet. I'd go further and weed out these liberals in libertarian clothing from The Mises Institute. The last fucking thing we need is have it infect that place. Cato sucks as it is.
"The Left-Right labels are as arbitrary as the Red-Blue States labels. It originally referred only to the left and the right sides of the aisle in Parliament to distinguish the Tories from the Whigs."
Actually it referred to the Estates General in France leading up to the Revolution. The anti-libertarian political class, composed of the First Estate (the Church) and the Second Estate (the Crown) sat on the right, while the productive class, composed of the Third Estate (peasants, tradesmen, shopkeepers, etc.) and including some libertarians, sat on the left.
Once I thought about things like: why such information is for free here? Because when you write a book then at least on selling a book you get a percentage. Thank you and good luck on informing people more about it! capture his heart
"Re" claiming? They had it before? And I thought Roderick was a libertarian ally. My mistake.
ReplyDeleteI guess the idea that Roderick Long's thinking about is that since libertarianism was historically based in classical liberalism, which was on the left side of the left-right spectrum. Murray Rothbard documented this in his book For A New Liberty and his essay "Left and Right", which argued that libertarianism is not conservative and the equivalent of the conservative.
ReplyDeleteHowever, Murray Rothbard himself acknowledged that libertarianism is a "political theory" and nothing more. Acknowledging that libertarianism is true leftism (like Rothbard did) is not the same as trying to thicken it and make it murky, like most of these left-libertarians (even the genuine and sincere ones) are doing. "Thin libertarianism" is perfectly compatible with viewing libertarianism as a "true leftist" belief based in classical liberalism, but ultimately we libertarians and anarcho-capitalists transcend left and right.
Good.
ReplyDeleteAll these names ares tedious.
The simple minded seek to adopt one that is closest to their views.
Now true freedom fighters can get back to abolishing the Fed & Pentagon.
*Anand
ReplyDeleteYou are quite right and especially insightful is the fact that Rothbard a social conservative by some magnitude yet it never occured to him that this is some way was in conflict with libertarianism being on the "left". If anything he emphasized that liberty was probably better preserved by more traditional societal values. Hoppe has followed the same track.
Whoever can define the terms wins the battle.
ReplyDeleteI just call myself an anarchist and or a "non-aggression principle" follower and leave it at that. Libertarianism connotes, I believe, some acknowledgement of a minimal State. And once that accommodation has been made, there's really no way of stopping the slippage.
The Left-Right labels are as arbitrary as the Red-Blue States labels. It originally referred only to the left and the right sides of the aisle in Parliament to distinguish the Tories from the Whigs. But the Tories and the Whigs themselves kept changing their principles, not to mention the addition of the Labor and Socialist parties, to the point where its a meaningless, misleading label.
http://www.cato-unbound.org/2012/04/04/roderick-t-long/praise-bleeding-heart-absolutism
ReplyDeleteLong attacks the "Unholy Trinity" of Mises, Rand, and Rothbard. Wants Left-Libertarian Absolutism..
This was back in 2012, April.
Your description is actually the opposite of what Roderick does in this article.
DeleteI was playing nice with this crowd for a while but it is clear what their agenda is now. The final straw was calling pretty much everybody associated with the Mises Institute racists. Oddly enough Roderick Long himself is associated with the Mises institute. It is clear they want to bring cultural marxism into libertarianism and label anybody who disagrees with them a bigot, misogynist or a "brutalist". I hold socially liberal views, so I was willing to hear what they had to say at first. What a mistake! I don't think it is a coincidence that they attacked the Mises institute. The Mises institute contains the most principled and accomplished academics in the movement. Get rid of them and suddenly you can redefine what libertarianism is and isn't. These people are cultural supremacists, they hate people who live in a conservative fashion. The cat is out of the bag, we know what they're about, lets drown the cat in the river. A philosophy must be able to stand up to scrutiny, libertarianism is no different! I think this will make the ideas of liberty must stronger!
ReplyDeleteThank you Anon. Sometimes you just can't take the leftist delusion out of the person. In the end their left ideological sickness will always win the day.
Delete"The Mises institute contains the most principled and accomplished academics in the movement. Get rid of them and suddenly you can redefine what libertarianism is and isn't."
Yup. In neon lights yet. I'd go further and weed out these liberals in libertarian clothing from The Mises Institute. The last fucking thing we need is have it infect that place. Cato sucks as it is.
Join the infected, Mike. We have cookies.
DeleteI would pay to see David Gordon and Roderick Long debate thick vs thin libertarianism. Not that I think there's much to debate.
ReplyDeleteEnemies List : people who are the vanguard of the Cultural Marxist invasion of pure Libertarianism.
ReplyDeleteRoderick Long
Jeff Tucker
Sheldon Richman
Gary Chartier
Charles Johnson
Kevin Carson
To understand exactly how the left libertarians work, see Keith Prestons articles and podcasts on 'Totalitarian Humanism'
"The Left-Right labels are as arbitrary as the Red-Blue States labels. It originally referred only to the left and the right sides of the aisle in Parliament to distinguish the Tories from the Whigs."
ReplyDeleteActually it referred to the Estates General in France leading up to the Revolution. The anti-libertarian political class, composed of the First Estate (the Church) and the Second Estate (the Crown) sat on the right, while the productive class, composed of the Third Estate (peasants, tradesmen, shopkeepers, etc.) and including some libertarians, sat on the left.
Pretty soon I'm just going to start calling myself an anti-egalitarian and skip the liberty part as it's been so perverted. Or maybe just a brutalist.
ReplyDeleteOnce I thought about things like: why such information is for free here? Because when you write a book then at least on selling a book you get a percentage. Thank you and good luck on informing people more about it!
ReplyDeletecapture his heart