Wednesday, July 20, 2011

Ron and Rand Paul Split on ‘Cut, Cap, and Balance’ Bill

Ron Paul, a presidential candidate and House veteran who has never voted to raise the debt ceiling in his two decades in office, was one of only nine Republican House members Tuesday to vote against the "Cut, Cap and Balance" bill that would raise the debt ceiling in return for a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution. He said the bill, which was championed by his son, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, didn't go far enough to address the nation's spending pattern, reports Chris Moody at Yahoo.

Father knows best here. I'm with Ron. The budget will never come under control by raising the debt limit. See Larry Elkin's take on Borrowing Our Way to Better Credit.


  1. Rand Paul logic: we will obtain a reduction in the deficit (desired end) by increasing the deficit (contradictory means).

  2. Stuff like this has always been my main beef with Rand. He simply is not radical enough.

    Of course his intentions are always good...but that's how we got on this road to hell as they say.

    You have to be "radical" to be stout in your principles. Otherwise you're always trying to "out-manuever" the guy trying to do the same to the name of "progress".

    It's like cops breaking the law to catch criminals...

  3. Anon,

    To which I say:

    We're mistaken if we believe we're all after the same thing. Rand Paul isn't an anarchist. He doesn't see government force as wholly illegitimate, no matter how it's used. You can't partner up with Rand Paul on obtaining liberty any more than you can partner up with Bernie Sanders.

  4. 'Stuff like this has always been my main beef with Rand. He simply is not radical enough.'

    I dunno. He's trying to be practical. We all know the congress is going to raise the debt ceiling anyway, but getting a balanced budget amendment might be worth trying for. I could see him going for that.

    As it is, it won't matter either way tho. The bill will not pass, will not get signed, and would not survive a veto with the current yoyo's we have in office.

  5. Taylor, I somewhat disagree with your comment. You can partner up with them when they take the Anarcholibertarian position but at the same time you have to realize that there will be many issues that we must fight them as bitter enemies to real freedom.

  6. Dan,

    Fair enough. I stand corrected.

  7. After having watched this (link below) Rand has managed to completely discredit himself in my eyes.

    It just goes to show how difficult the job of being a consistent defender of freedom is and how impressive Ron's conduct has been during his many years of advocating liberty.

  8. While I do disagree with Rand's decision, and don't believe making a deal will work, I believe Rand said he would consider "a deal" (raising the debt ceiling) if it included talk of balancing the budget, etc. I have a feeling he'll just give them the one chance.

  9. Normally I'd say it's good that the son is standing up for himself and voting how he believes, regardless of how his father votes.

    However I find it hard to understand how someone could grow up as the son of Ron &&^%$ PAUL for crying out loud, and then publicly disagree with him over something as basic as public debt.

    Just that old father-son dynamic I guess; he needs to prove he's his own man. But boy, what a dumb-ass topic to do it with! So he's a Keynesian.. or what?

    What's his message here? 'I'm a douche' may be appropriate but a tad vague.

    Message for Rand:

    You wanna grow up? you wanne be your own man? Wanna stand tall with pride and independence?

    Ya do?

    Cool. Then it's easy for you - follow in the footsteps of your father, for he's one of the greatest men that ever lived.

  10. As an Anarcho-Libertarian, I don't and won't vote. I have a very high regard for Ron Paul and believe he is the only ethical member of congress. I wish him well.
    As for his son Rank, he has a long way to go.

  11. Why did Rand confirm Panetta? He sailed through 100-0. It would have been the perfect time to stand 99-1 alone like Ron has so many times. That way you get to voice the dissenting view and get free coverage and time to educate the masses on what principles guide you and what qualifications are looking for in an appointee.

    Moreover Rand's budget plan only eliminates $500B of the $1.5T deficit. Not raising the ceiling eliminates it all and will only serve to shine the light on the costs of empire. The masses will take to the streets like the Greeks when their checks don't come but this would last for about a day until they discovered that their checks could come tomorrow if the wars end at once. No empire alone will wipe out 85% of the deficit overnight.

  12. Look, if you guys haven't realized, Rand is running for president. He's making inroads with conservatives by championing cap cut balance. He's also said he will not vote for the debt ceiling increase unless they pass a balanced budget amendment (in other words, he won't vote for an increase.) He has not even voted on cut cap balance yet.

    As for Panetta, I think he probably got scared away after all the negative press he received for voting against the laser pointer bill. It seems as if he's trying to pick his battles for maximum public exposure instead of building the same kind of record Ron did. I don't personally they're particularly different in their view but they certainly are in style. For me, it's to early to judge Rand.

    Also, to be fair to Rand, Ron can cut pork for his district and get away with controversial votes. Rand simply isn't in the same position and probably thinks he can't get away with as much. Make no mistake, both are savvy politicians just in different ways.

  13. The analogy is good for why I didn't vote for "w". At this point I wouldn't vote for Dr. Rand. But then I think Ron has a good chance of splitting the convention. Tea Party knows he'll pull left and moderate Dems, as well as independents. And the Central Planners of both parties are marginalized. I don't think Obie's gonna be able to buy the election this time.

  14. I don't buy the balanced budget one damned bit. Here's why: If, by some miracle, a balanced budget amendment is passed and ratified by 3/4 of the states, they will NOT reduce spending, deals will be made, and the end result will be higher taxes to balance the budget...not spending cuts. I'd rather the whole federal government crumble if you ask me. You can live without the federal government...but the federal government can't live without you. Just let it commit suicide already. We'd still have our state and local governments.

  15. @Bert M

    Rand "got scared" and is trying to make friends... Maybe that is why all those pols voted for TARP... they got scared the sky was falling, or the PATRIOT Act because they got scared those evil Islamo-fascists would hide behind due process, innocent until proven guilty and other human rights acknowledged and secured (but not created) by our Constitution...

    I hope I never need you to defend me. In your defense of Rand you affirm everything that is objectionable but then you dismiss willy nilly it whereas the public is hungry for the opposite... someone who is fearless and principled without regard as to who's toes get stepped on (like Ron!)

  16. Rand may be trying to make friends and at this point, I don't think it's fair to judge him for trying to do so. What he hasn't done is make any big mistakes yet (in fact, the only mistakes I'd count so far regard distaster funds he's taken for Kentucky). Even Ron voted for Afghanistan.

    Stop pretending Ron is some God and Rand has fallen. They're both politicians. He's new, obviously has a different strategy for getting his message out and hasn't cast any votes to suggest he doesn't support 95% of his father's agenda. And I don't count low-profile, high-consensus votes like the Panetta confirmation as serious deviations. I assume he just doesn't want to make headlines over small issues like that. I can see the rational.

  17. Taylor Conant said:

    "Fair enough. I stand corrected."

    Here is proof that Earth as been invaded by aliens from outer space. No human would ever admit to being wrong. Saving face is the ultimate virtue, the first priority, the main thing. Taylor, where are you from?

  18. Greetings, Earthlings. I come in peace.

    You're giving me too much credit. I have way too many e-nemesi (plural of nemesis?!) who will, perhaps rightly so, claim that I never back down, not even when it is OBVIOUS I am wrong!

  19. Oh, and when admitting I am wrong, I always fully reserve my right to change my mind later and insist I am right. :)

  20. I don't think Rand can vote on the CCB because Reid tabled it. Pardon my ignorance, but that's the gist I got. Ron didn't vote for it because they snuck in a debt ceiling increase and maintained the futile war on terror as he stated in his House floor speech.