Believe me, the Greeks know the answer is to go back to the drachma. Greece had a decent economy before Goldman helped them lie their way into the EZ.
I was really impressed with how knowledgeable folks were. They pretty much summed it up as follows:
This is not our f'ing debt. It's the debt of the greedy banksters!That is why they just partied right along. The Greeks have no intention of paying the bankers' debt - only the bureaucrats want to.
The only reason why this bailout saga is dragging on for years now is that the banksters are afraid that struggling EZ countries - esp the PIIGS - will stick it to them as Iceland did, and they don't want Greece to be a first domino.
Monday, June 4, 2012
Greece and the Banksters
Iris Mack, who has spent some time in Greece, emails:
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How can they claim its not their debt? They were the ones voting for the social welfare programs... Certainly they can avoid the debt, but they can't avoid paying for the programs through inflation.
ReplyDelete"ahh, you must be German, we'll explain" the Greeks would reply "A man promised us lots of stuff in return for our votes, how he was going to pay for it wasn't our problem"
DeleteThose social welfare programs are a tragedy of the commons for which no one Greek by definition bears responsibility -- save perhaps the politicians who shaped the circumstances that way. The average Greek has no ethical responsibility to this debt; in fact, he is a hero for bleeding the parasite dry before it can grow hungrier.
DeleteI think the game works like this.
ReplyDelete1. Finance strong men "entice" political leaders to accept to economic arrangement.
2. The political leaders who were malleable enact spending for "social" programs like:
A. Government Schooling and Media programs to educate the public on the benefits of their new collective arrangement.
B. Funding a growing health complex that is better suited to treat the members of the new collective based on new societal goals.
C. Purchasing/Confiscation of particular private farmlands as well as population relocation programs.
D. Military/police spending to enforce the A, B & C.
E. Infrastructure spending that will facilitate easy access for A, B, C & D
Voila, a nation's peoples are on the hook for all that "social" spending. When I see images of the civil unrest and all the police man power and gear it takes to put down the countless demonstrations,, I think about one thing. Where did all the money come from to militarize and modernize their police/military?
Correct me if I am wrong but they've basically bought their own enslavement.
@ Anonymous 11:35 AM,
ReplyDeleteMy sentiments exactly. It most certainly is their debt. The deadbeats just don't want to own up to it. Just like Americans who borrowed against all the equity in their homes and now are underwater and can't meet debt obligations. Yes the Bankster class are economic vampires but lets not absolve the profligate beneficiaries of the crumbling welfare state.
The Greek people are just as much to blame as the Keynesian political hacks they elected or the Bankster masters of the universe pulling the strings. When they get their precious drachma back they will quickly see what life is like when you can't afford any imported goods and yet produce nothing domestically worth buying.
Their government voted for the debt with the backing of a large part of the populace, but not everyone to be sure.
ReplyDeleteThe debt was invalid because it was not owed by people under any actual contractual arrangement with an obligation to repay it. The large part of the populace that was voting never had any intention to pay it themselves, they were always interested in having someone else pay for their benefits.
There was the Iron Curtain, and now there is the Paper Curtain (as in fiat money). The later will fall just as the former did.
ReplyDeleteIs it just me, or are people not thinking clearly about Greece's problems?
ReplyDeleteThe Greeks don't want to go back to the drachma for its own sake, they want to go back to the drachma so that they can devalue the shit out of it! How is hyperinflation going to help their economy? They'll simply be in the same position as Argentina.
Reverting to the drachma and repudiating the debt are two separate things. The latter makes sense, assuming it's combined with economic liberalization, including spending cuts, tax reduction, and deregulation. But reverting to the drachma implies none of these things, and will probably lead to the opposite.
I agree. Iris Mack's comments seem tacitly to support Keynesianism. The Greeks are pissed off because they've struck the bottom of the German well, and the Germans won't dig deeper.
DeleteAt the root, the Greeks (and really, most people in most countries) have a sense of entitlement. They believe they have a right to other people's efforts. They rationalize this "right" through just their existence, or maybe their "hard work" (after all, sweeping streets is hard work and "deserves equal pay" with others performing less hard work but getting more pay).
The real problem is that when you rationalize your entitlement, you actually start to believe it. You start to hate anyone with the audacity to have "austerity" over their money -- money that, in reality, you believe belongs to you. Pretty soon people are shooting each other over borders.
Anon 11:35 AM and 12:47 PM
ReplyDeleteYou are really clueless.
And talk about apple and oranges when comparing Greek population with the US borrowers of the housing bubble.
At least 70 bill of the 300 bill debt at the time Greece entered the bailout agreement is debt from shady deals with Goldman Sachs.
The problems starts, as with everything wrong in the world right now, with the US economy and dollar inflation. The bigger the dollar inflation rate inside the US, the less value the accumulated US debt held around the world has. It's like the US is imposing an extra tax every time the dollar is inflated as a sign of "gratitude" to those stupid enough to buy its debt.
The US has dumped too many toxic assets around the world, and makes its own problem eveyone else's problem. The worst exposed were the European banks. So the European banks needed extra liquitidy to deal with this porblem. Enter the artificial creation of the "Greek crisis" i.e. recapitalizing banks through the so-called "Greek bailout" which is in reality a bank bailout, since the money never enters Greece and goes straight to the banks. What makes this even more amusing is that through this scam that masquerades a bank bailout as a "Greek Bailout" the Greeks are charged an extra 10% of interest for every "loan", all the while they have to the endure genocidal austerity and "reforms" in order to secure "funding".
So no, I'm afraid your little theories about "Social welfare" and they "lived beyond their means" show little else besides how financially illiterate people like yourselves can parrot what the msm/bank propaganda is telling them.