Friday, December 28, 2012

Justin Amash Doubles Down on His Call to Keep Taxes on the Table

He tells Reason Magazine:
The number one problem is debt. If someone brought a proposal that dealt substantially with entitlements, reforming them to ensure our government remains solvent in the long run, then we have to put everything on the table including taxes. I know some libertarians say it’s wrong to put taxes on the table under any circumstances. I disagree. The number one problem is debt. I don’t want to raise taxes; I don’t believe we need any more revenue for the federal government, but I cannot rule out discussion on taxes if someone else is willing to put on the table major reforms for entitlements.
Contrast the Amash view with that of Murray Rothbard (start at 3:21):



Rep. Kerry Bentivoli is much stronger on the tax point than Amash, he tells Reason:
I won’t vote for a tax increase. My constituents do not want me to vote for a tax increase. I’m not going to vote to raise the debt because my constituents don’t want me to raise the debt.

25 comments:

  1. "The number one problem is debt."

    No it's not. It's government, you twat.

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  2. What a sad thing to watch.

    I heard somewhere that Amash has a picture of Rothbard in his office....I think he needs to stare at that picture a little harder.

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  3. If he means entirely phasing out all entitlement programs, then sure. Otherwise I'll have to disagree. He's still a good man, though.

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    1. Nobody that is open to robbing more of the people's money than government is already doing is a good man.

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    2. If he was a "good man" he wouldn't be compromising on taxes. The problem is TOO MUCH government. That is the ONLY thing that should be on the table. Otherwise he can go piss up a rope.

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    3. Debt: Caused by spend happy government parasites.
      Taxes: Money stolen by government parasites from productive people.

      Potential solution Justin Amash: Rob more money from peaceful, productive people in order to solve problems created by government parasites.

      And this is why Justin Amash is not anything close to being libertarian. Because he simply does not get the immorality of what he's open for. He puts the needs of government over the rights of individuals. You can spout easy libertarian-sounding platitudes all you want, but if you simply don't get what makes libertarianism morally superior, you can never be one.
      Sure, if you want to make some kind of impact maybe you can't advocate the abolition of income taxes. But to be open to RAISING them? Goodbye, Mr. Statist.

      As far as Kerry Bontivolio is concerned, from the first moment i did some research on him he seemed the best out of the lot.

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    4. Amash is trying to do a 'deal' to get entitlements on the table rather than be an ineffectual No vote. I don't like the strategy but it might work in getting some Dumbocrats to concede that entitlements need reform. Bentivolio does indeed sound good and Michigan is leading the way with these 2 GOP congressman but make no mistake, the State GOP hates them and will try and get them out through the primary process. They're both worthy of support.

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    5. If you advocate coercive taxation you are a thief. A is A. A good man does not advocate coercive taxation. A is A.

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  4. Let me get it straight... a good man who is willing to sic robbers in uniform on me and my friends to get even more loot to feed the parasites? I think he's just another turncoat asshole.

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    1. Turn coat asshole...love it. I agree. This douchebag doesn't realize that the debt can never be paid off. It's time to cut our losses, eliminate all federal taxes (to start), and introduce competing free-market money.

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  5. What i don't get it this: why should anyone even give a good &#*@$ if entitlements are "reformed", if they have to pay more taxes for the privilege?

    One hand puts 10 dollars in your left pocket, while the other hand takes 20 dollars out of your right pocket. And this is supposed to be progress because it keeps the thief from going broke.

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  6. Let's hope this kind of heat on him will make him reconsider, and change his views.

    He may not be perfect, but I'll bet he can be persuaded to becoming a Rothbardian.

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  7. #1 - Low taxes and high spending is "free" government. Free government is bigger government, so if you want smaller government, tax the hell out of everyone, don't give it away for free.
    #2 - I'm pretty libertarian and I would rather see taxes go up than spending stay the same.
    #3 - Give me a break on the guys with guns show up at your door...half the people I know lie on their taxes and they never get caught, so chill out on the IRS Storm Troopers, it's not an effective argument that deals with reality.
    #4 - You will NOT live in a Rothbardian libertarian society, so deal with it, and stop attacking the few guys that mostly agree with you (Gary Johnson, Rand Paul, Justin Amash). You end up sounding like a whiny bitch.
    #5 - Shit is fucked up, quit complaining, and get on with your lives.
    #6 - Even though shit is fucked up, it could be worse, and a lot of things are getting better. At least they are started to legalize pot.

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    1. You're comment proves the truth of this HL Mencken quote, "No one in this world, so far as I know, and I have searched the records, and emplyed agents to help me, has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

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    2. Yah, I like HL Mencken too. But can't libertarians like Wenzel and other commenters come up with better strategies and tactics than sitting all day theorizing about ideal society. By the time we are done debating we'll all be dead. So instead of complaining, think about doing something positive and turn it into action. Do it. Do it now. Tired of complainers and haters and theorists.

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    3. "Tired of complainers and haters and theorists."

      Then leave.

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    4. "#1 - Low taxes and high spending is "free" government. Free government is bigger government, so if you want smaller government, tax the hell out of everyone, don't give it away for free."

      Got any more stupid, anti-logical arguments?


      "#2 - I'm pretty libertarian and I would rather see taxes go up than spending stay the same."

      "Pretty libertarian" is the same as saying "not really". As if that didn't basically disqualify your opinion on this matter, you made sure it was by saying you'd rather see taxes go up than spending staying the same. Pray tell, why would anyone give a shit if spending goes down, if they have to pay more in taxes? If i have to pay 0 dollars in taxes, government could spend until the cows come home. The spending is not the problem; where they get the fucking money is the problem.


      "#3 - Give me a break on the guys with guns show up at your door...half the people I know lie on their taxes and they never get caught, so chill out on the IRS Storm Troopers"

      Life must be sweet for you and the people you know. Fuck those for whom it isn't, right? Great argument.


      "it's not an effective argument that deals with reality."

      You mean YOUR reality. Why not simply stop paying taxes altogether? Do it, i beg you, and don't complain about IRS storm troopers afterward. You know damn well why you and everyone else is still paying taxes.


      "#4 - You will NOT live in a Rothbardian libertarian society, so deal with it"

      You will NOT live in a crime-free society. So deal with it and stop seeing a crime free society as an ideal.
      Support the enforcer that will only put out cigarettes on your hand instead of breaking your knee caps.


      "You end up sounding like a whiny bitch."

      Did we ruffle the feathers of a politician-worshipper who can't deal with criticism of his heroes? Tough shit.


      "#5 - Shit is fucked up, quit complaining, and get on with your lives."

      Why are you here? Did you expect a lot of ass-kissing of your heroes and found out this is the wrong place for that?


      #6 - Even though shit is fucked up, it could be worse"

      It could be worse even in Cuba. Pathetic argument.


      "and a lot of things are getting better. At least they are started to legalize pot."

      Well, now we know why you are so easily satisfied. Toke up, dude, and happy new year.

      And don't worry about the NDAA, the TSA, war, further eroding of constitutional rights, coming tax increases, and all that shit. They're just figments of our imagination.

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    5. @ I'm Pretty Libertarian-

      "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" john adams

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    6. #3 Gee. I wonder what will happen if Katt Williams decides to flip the IRS the bird?

      "IRS Places $4 Million Tax Lien Against Comedian Katt Williams"

      http://reason.com/24-7/2012/12/28/irs-places-4-million-tax-lien-against-co

      But what do you care? It's not like YOU are Katt Williams, right? Nope. People with guns coming to collect is not an argument that deals with reality at all.

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    7. Great John Adams quote. We aren't "theorizing" for the fuck of it- we are doing it to show smart people that "pretty libertarian" will still lead to bullshit like you.

      Go big, go hard, or go the fuck home.

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    8. Heres a hypothetical
      #1: we need to invade Iraq...we will also cut taxes, do we have your support?
      #2: we need to invade Iraq...we will need to raise taxes to pay for it, do we have your support?
      Which scenario gets more support?

      There's an example of lower taxes leading to bigger government.

      You guys need to accept that we are greatly outnumbered and outgunned. So stop posting T. Jefferson quotes and Rothbard YouTubes and go do something in the real world. The Internet is already libertarian enough.

      You'll thank me later.

      -P. Libertarian

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    9. Here's another hypothetical:

      #1 We want a welfare state that takes care of everybody... We will also cut taxes.
      #2 We want a welfare state but need to raise taxes for it.

      Why haven't governments gone for lower taxes leading to big safe welfare states? This is effing brilliant... What sound logic. And nobody gets it, not even Obama.

      ***

      Maybe if you have anything of worth to say, there's a point to continue responding to you. Because right now it's obvious to me there isn't.

      Thanks for dropping in.

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  8. And there was an article in politico with the opening line, "GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. — As Rep. Ron Paul prepares to leave Congress after 2012, there is a man waiting in the wings to carry on his constitutional crusade: Michigan freshman Rep. Justin Amash."

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA....yeah, right


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  9. Look, government spending and regulations = coercive control of resources = current + future + implicit taxation. Obamacare's individual mandate is a huge tax and spending program even though it doesn't show up on the budget's (im)balance sheet. The starve-the-beast theory has been persuasively debunked on both logical and empirical grounds by the late William Niskanen and Michael J. New. When stuff (including government spending funded by borrowing) looks cheap, people want more of it.

    It looks like Rep. Amash is focused on the spending/regulatory side and doesn't want taxes to go up but understands the need to remove the fiscal illusion created by deficit finance. That, and the GOP has to negotiate with statists in the Senate and the White House.

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  10. Ol' Justine says: "The number one problem is debt."

    Of course the debt is a problem, but it's not the core problem: spending is, and the deficit is a consequence of it. Raising taxes will not fix the core problem.

    It's like price inflation. It's a problem for sure, but it's a consequence from inflating the money supply. Price inflation can be attacked using tactics like wage and price controls, but that does not fix the core problem.

    Justine, take a note... Cutting spending is the solution and there are not enough souls in Congress for that. Not when almost all of them believe that government spending is good for the economy. Be principled. It's all you got.

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