Monday, July 2, 2012

How to Game Obamacare (And Eventually Collapse It)

It's clear that, under Obamacare, premiums will go through the roof, especially for the young. It will be cheaper for almost everyone to pay the penalty rather than buy insurance. And since, Obamacare requires that insurers take on those who already have pre-existing conditions, there is no risk for those who simply pay the penalty. If a penalty payer comes down with a catastrophic condition, he can simply buy "insurance" at that point.

This will eventually collapse the system, unless penalties are made higher than the cost of insurance (which would require congressional approval--imagine that circus).

As a commenter at WSJ put it:
Obamacare will collapse of it's own accord. Do the math. It will be cheaper to pay the penalty than to buy insurance. For any health insurance to work you need healthy people that use little to no health care to pay into the system so that there will be a large enough pool of money to pay for those who require expensive care.
I am opposed to Obamacare but I can not wait for it to be implemented. The achilles heal of the Obama Health Care Tax scheme is that people will just wait until they are sick to sign up for insurance. As a result, billions will be removed from the insurance pool. The faster the plan is put into place the faster this flaw will become apparent and the faster this Ponzi scheme will be repealed.  
If you doubt what I am saying research the Mass. health care plan that was in effect before the so-called Romney care plan.

This commenter is correct. Let's get the Obamacare show on the road. Pay the penalty, collapse the healthcare insurance industry and lets see what these nutjobs try next.
(ht Iris Mack)







49 comments:

  1. Say HI! to single payer. It'll be presented as "simpler" after the collapse of BamaCare.

    I just got an email from a friend who thinks the govt "NEEDS" to provide health care and also education, clean water, yadda yadda. Why, I've discovered that she's nothin' but a goddam COMMIE!!!

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    1. Exactly!

      Obamacare was DESIGNED to collapse so that single payer would look good in comparison.

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    2. She's not your friend.

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  2. I'm. Not. Paying. Sh!t.

    They can put my fat, white @ss in jail (where I'll get free healthcare). They'll not get one red cent from me.

    Revolution, on.

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    1. I am with you on that, Chris.

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    2. Free healthcare in jail? Good idea, if you can get it. Read up on how many 'inmates' suffer, or are neglected and die due to sheer ignorance.

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    3. Lily, not in California! They get the best prescription meds available. Even death row inmates get heart transplants!

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  3. when enough people start to do that they will jack up the tax rate and penalty fees. The best way to beat obama care is really use religion. Some are exempt. Not sure how that works though maybe some one can do research.

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    1. @ Anonymous at 11:47 am

      I think you're on onto something. These control freaks within the administration (and beyond) have their own collectivist environmentalist death-to-humankind cult.
      But to think that the manipulators on high have not thought a few steps down the road is unwise. They've set these traps too many times and whatever crisis results just creates another opportunity for one of their fear mongered solutions. On and on it goes.
      We are playing their game. We need to play ours. That is what I like about your suggestion.

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    2. I'm not sure if that's doable: religious institutions aren't exempt unless they only employ members of their religion, and only serve members of their own religion. Thus a Catholic (the main religion protesting) school that has a single non-Catholic attending isn't exempt.

      On a personal level, I'm not sure how difficult it is to apply for the religious exemption.

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    3. Religious exemptions typically only apply for the Amish and other groups like them. I know in laws regarding schooling, the Amish are the only ones who can get a religious exemption. Think of it less as an religious exemption and more as an exemption that goes to a particular religion.

      Might be time to look into converting . . .

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    4. I have Medishare.....It is a Christian based sharing program not an insurance....It is exempt from Obama care......

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    5. Yeah if you're a muslim,you're exempt.And as far as the Amish go,the FDA is doing a number on them so it won't be long before they lose their religious exemption.

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  4. It's not a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes are voluntary. They don't threaten you. Neither do they use violence.

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    1. Their use of violence is implicit.

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  5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a person doesn't even need to pay the penalty. Obamacare prevents the IRS from using traditional liens and criminal prosecutions in collecting the penalty/tax. They mere allow the IRS to claw back on withholding. So a person simply needs to structure his/her returns to make sure they don't get money back from the government, and the government has no mechanism for enforcing the penalty/tax.

    Would seem the whole thing would collapse even quicker.

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    1. Yes you are correct about no criminal penalties. They can sue you civilly and get double the fine. But collecting it will be the hard part if a person has no identifiable bank account. And I'll merely structure my quarterly payments and tax return so that my last payment on January 15th is exactly what I owe minus the healthcare penalty.

      Start transferring things out of your personal name now. Don't wait.

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  6. @AnonymousJuly 2, 2012 11:47 AM

    That is true. However, one important fact about government. They can never keep tax rates up with their spending. Part of that is simple bureaucratic inertia and part is not wanting to lose power.

    So tax rates will rise as more pay the tax, but it will never rise as fast as the cost of being insured.

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  7. The hell? Is the tax actually voluntary?

    I watched a Peter Schiff video recently where he said the tax doesn't even have to be paid.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNCyEC9r_mk (lazy to find specific time in video)

    Also, from this website: http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/

    "In fact, as previously mentioned, the bill signed into law specifically waives any criminal penalties for individuals who refuse to obtain coverage and also refuse to pay the tax. It says (on page 131): "In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure." "

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    1. OK, but since when has the IRS ever paid any attention to the "law"? It does not operate under law.

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  8. 1. I might do this as well but I am concerned about SUDDEN illness, like a $45,000 heart attack. Time is needed to setup a policy. Thoughts?

    2. Congress cannot just "raise" the tax. If you read Robert's ruling, it is a tax because a person is not entirely coerced into getting health insurance -- but if the tax were higher, it would become a penalty and congress does not have the authority to penalize someone for not buying health insurance.

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  9. Be careful what you wish for. Those who seek power will use the collapse as an excuse to create a bigger and more intrusive system to replace it.

    "It would have worked if only we'd had higher penalties and fewer expenditures."

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    1. That assumes a party elected with the power to create such a "new" system.Now exactly which of the two political parties in America would that be and will you vote for and support Pols who run under the banner of that party, just to insure you get Single Payer?

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    2. If you're looking to a political party to solve your problems, you're going to be waiting for a very long time. It's got nothing to do with parties, and everything to do with power. When systems like this collapse, whatever comes along in the wake is usually worse, not better.

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  10. You can certainly game the system by paying the penalties, but if you fall into a subsidized income bracket, I would highly recommend simply taking the federally subsidized insurance and using it aggressively. Visit the doctor for every little ache and pain; take full advantage of related medical services (dental, vision, etc...) and in general, create costs far exceeding your minimal contribution (if any).

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    1. My thoughts exactly. Since this scheme will eventually fail, one may as well take advantage of it before it's too late.

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  11. We have several things going for us that will make hasten this collapse. 1) The dollar is quickly losing value and will probably accelerate. 2) The economy is stumbling along, and with the implementation of Obama Care more business will downsize or simply close. 3) Tax increases are likely coming in January. 4) US debt is climbing rapidly which will make US bonds look more like the junk bonds they are.

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  12. Since the penalty was ruled a tax by the Supreme Court, it would seem that the bill could be challenged again since all revenue raising acts must originate in the House, and the bill signed by Mr. Soetoro originated in the Senate.

    Could be brought down even more quickly...

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    1. Sadly, cheating has paid off twice in this case. The bill was originally a housing bill that originated in the house and had gotten out of committee. The dems didn't want repubs slowing down the healthcare bill in committee, so they took that housing bill, stripped it of all its language, and passed a blank bill. Senate dems took this blank bill, added the language to it, and the bill went through reconciliation because the dems claimed it was purely budgetary (and they didn't have the votes after Brown won election).

      So their parliamentary trick paid off twice. Once to speed up the process, and now again as it technically originated in the house.

      And chief justice Roberts rewarded these dirty tricks.

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    2. Yep, and if the Stupid party can get control again they can reverse most all of the crap in this bill using the same exact methods.Dont forget to vote this fall,or your just part of the problem.

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    3. Don't vote this fall, or you're just part of the problem.

      Fixed that for you.

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  13. "It's clear that, under Obamacare, premiums will go through the roof, especially for the young."

    If you have to say that something is "clear" but you're unable to give any argument in support of it, that's a sign your argument is most likely bullshit.

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    1. To Bob Wenzel's economically literate audience, any explanation of why premiums will go through the roof under Obamacare would be a redundant waste of time.

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    2. Someone has to pay for rising costs emanating from all of this new demand for health care. Universal coverage does not mean universal care.

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    3. I have a feeling that you didn't read the rest of the post. If people can now pay the fine, because it's cheaper, and then force an insurance company to accept them at the point they get a condition where they need insurance, you don't think insurance prices will skyrocket?

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  14. Try to understand policy exclusion versus pre existing conditions. Two totally different things.

    Example: "No Pre Existing conditions" means they can't deny you "coverage" due to pre-existing conditions (they can't deny you the ability to elect coverage.)

    HOWEVER; It doesn't mean they are going to remove the "exclusions" from the policies that deny a specific claim if you have been treated for an illness without "proof of prior coverage".
    Have fun paying twice for your uncovered illness.

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    1. Good point. Medicare will not "deny coverage" once you've reached that magic age that qualifies. But there is a waiting period (90 days, if I recall correctly) in which they will not pay for services related to a pre-existing condition. Better read the fine print before you decide to wait to apply for coverage from the emergency room.

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  15. let's call this scheme; obama-doesn't-care..

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  16. "The achilles heal of the Obama Health Care Tax scheme is that people will just wait until they are sick to sign up for insurance"....

    ...and here I thought Achilles had a vulnerable heel - not a heal! Looks like a Freudian slip to me...!

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    1. Hey Guys,
      Obamacare was designed to destroy the private health care industry. The first victims will be all of the private insurers. Then will come the hospitals and clinics. Last will be the individual doctors and nurses etc. All will be taken over and directly employed (run) by the massive federal agency that will be created by Obama and his socialist minions.
      So, don't waste your time arguing semantics or portions of the law. The only true repeal of it will be what Romney promises to do: offer everyone a waiver like Obama has for his union buddies. DUMP OBAMA!

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  17. 12 million illegal aliens will now be covered by Obamadoesntcare and if anyone thinks insurance companies won't raise their premiums then they are eligible for a padded room.

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    1. This is simply not true.

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    2. No, this simply is true. HUGE numbers of illegal aliens are even getting totally unqualified tax returns of $11,000 and more! They found 20 at the same address, but didn't even live there! So, you tell us again how it's "not true."

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  18. You are right about it collapsing something. That something is the private insurance industry. So then the only place to get insurance will be the gov-ment, which is exactly what O'socialist wants.

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  19. Liberals have been soooooo fooled.They need to wake up and smell the scum.Somebody needs to let these idiots know what gov't is and what gov't isn't.The US gov't is supposed to protect this country and protect our rights........PERIOD! That's it nothing more.
    Where in the hell do people get the idea that gov't is to provide food clothing shelter and health care,free schooling, condoms and whatever else you can think of.
    Somebody set these idiots straight.We are not a communist or socialist country,never have been.These people need to move to a communist country of their choice.

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    1. Fuck "liberals". They support and enable this crap. I hope they drown in it.

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    2. Sadly, it is people who think like you that have been fooled. You say, "We are not a communist or socialist country, never have been." You need to wake up and look around. The rule of law (the latest evidence being right before us) says that we are WORSE than communists and socialists. You see, Communist governments actually control the industry/production and must therefore take responsibility for its collapse. But in our corporatist form of government, the government controls the industry/means of production but takes NO responsibility for demise because it blames the failure on the "private" system that is actually being controlled by the government and trying to run it's industry/production. So, when you say liberals are the fools, point that stupidity right back at yourself and say you are the fool and also a coward for not being willing to defend freedom to the death and with arms and necessary violence. (Please don't say you were a soldier who fought for this country's freedom, you and anyone living is not old enough to have fought a war for actual freedom)!

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  20. Hi. I'm swedish. We have read a lot of ObamaCare in Sweden. Our country is sort of socialistic, though we have a "conservative" party in power since 6 years. We have "free" healthcare. Well, it costs around 30 dollars to see a doctor. And it can take a couple of years to get a surgical done, but we are very patient.

    Dentalcosts are not free but subsidied. The cost is taken from the nations budget which sums up to about 200 billion dollars annually. 9,5 million inhabitants. Sweden has the 2nd highest taxes in the world. And a lot of immigration from Africa and Arabia. A lot of the problems u discuss here is also problems in Sweden.
    For the employed its a wonderful country. For us entreprenuers its a hell. High social taxes (31.42%), VAT (6-25%) and incometax (25% - 60%) along with a numerous other taxes is making it hard or impossible to run a business here. Gasoline costs about 2,3 dollars per litre. :) The public sector has emplyed 1/3 of the working population. Etc etc etc.
    Just so you know; you have a rather good country.

    Regards Peter S.

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