Friday, September 6, 2013

Intense: MSNBC's Alex Wagner vs. Ron Paul On Syria, Liberty, Anti-Semitism

During a wide ranging interview, MSNBC anchor Alex Wagner challenged Ron Paul over his plan to speak at a Catholic organization conference. The organization has been charged with being anti-Semitic. As I have said before,  I would have no problem if Ron Paul ever choose to speak before the Ku Klux Klan, The New Black Panthers or a Bill Kristol led Neocon cruise to nowhere. Dr. Paul sets her straight.

(via Real Clear Politics)


  1. I love Ron Paul but he should simply say: "I'm going there to spread my views on liberty, peace and economic prosperity and not to endorse anyone else's views. And the people I want most to hear my views are the ones that disagree with them most."

    1. Totally agree Lysander. I would only add to your comment:

      "Alex - How do you expect to change the minds of people who you believe have abhorrent views if you do not engage them and try to educate them?"

      On another quasi related matter, I always thought Ron missed opportunities during GOP primary debates to pound on this message:

      "I am the only person on this stage that wants to disassemble the power of the office that I am seeking. This is not about me. It is about smashing the power that Washington has over our lives."

      I just feel if he narrowly focused on that line of messaging it really would have resonated. I am very pleased with the success that his movement has had, but I just think it could have been even better. I just love the guy and think he is a true hero for liberty.

    2. Those people do not disagree with Ron Paul. That's why they invited him to keynote the convention. They are completely familiar with his views, with the Austrian school, with his anti-intervention positions, everything. Ron Paul and Father Nicholas Gruner, head of the Fatima Center, have a bit of history together.

      If he disagrees with what they stand for, he should not keynote the event. He's not there to spread a liberty message. Every single person attending that convention knows his message.

  2. I find it soooo difficult to watch this stuff anymore.

    Regarding Syria and congress:

    "You have to admit [Congress] wouldn't have had a chance to make their voices heard had they not been given the opportunity by President Obama. Which is to say, if he had not gone to congress with this, they wouldn't have had a chance to vote!"

    Then she goes on to say we should applaud the president for going to Congress.

    Wait, what? Congress can't do anything unless the Prez says so? Applaud him for not making war when he's not supposed to make war?

    By this standard I suppose I should applaud that he hasn't ordered troops to burn down houses in every town in America. Yay?

    You can almost see her looking upset as if RP was insulting her grandmother.

    1. Under the War Powers Act, Obama does need Congressional authorization to launch a missile strike. The War Powers Act requires the President to notify Congress within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and forbids armed forces from remaining for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war.

  3. Doesn't sound like Rand & Ron are close at all.

  4. No agenda by Ms. Wagner in this interview. Plays it right down the middle, she does.

  5. This particular women really annoys me....this is the 2nd time I've seen her with Ron Paul.

    He is such a damn bulldog and gentleman with her...but it still makes me uncomfortable in watching the whole affair.

    The coordination involved between her and the MSNBC production staff in attempts to assassinate his character is immense.

    "Father of the Fringe" titles on the margins of the screen, her labeling him "irresponsible", etc.

    Ugh...I don't know how Ron Paul does it sometimes.

    At least he mentioned that if he didn't speak to anyone but supporters he wouldn't even be on!

  6. She reacts like Obama is her daddy or something. But then, this is MSNBC. Ron was great as usual.

  7. The Non-fringe Alex Wagner wants to get rid of the 2nd Amendment.

  8. It's funny that Ron Paul gets very upset when a mainstream economist simply says the Fed should do more to reduce unemployment but when the Fatima Center argues that "Judeo-Freemasonry" aims to exterminate humanity his approach is "don't be so hard on them."

    Does Ron Paul disagree with the Fatima quote Wagner read? No, he does not. If he did, he would have said so.

    Did Ron Paul "set her straight?" No,of course not. She asked him about a quote and Ron Paul's response shows that he agrees with the quote. If she quoted the Fatima Center saying the Fed should do more to fight unemployment, he would have gone into his dollar collapse rant. He agrees with the Fatima Center on these issues.

    1. Right, Jerry, Ron Paul the disciple of Mises and Rothbard is a Jew-hater.

      Or maybe he recognizes that, unlike the Fed's money debasement, the Fatima Center's opinion about "Judeo-Freemasonry" is irrelevant to most people, including most Jews. And, unless the Fatima Center is calling for Jews to be killed, then it is not as bad as MSNBC, which is calling for Syrians to be killed by tomahawk missiles.

      Your assertion that Ron Paul agrees with the Fatima Center on anything is just that — an assertion, unsupported by evidence. But hey, if Obama/Israel don't need actual evidence to bomb Syria, I suppose you don't need it to smear Ron Paul.

    2. She asked him about a quote and Ron Paul's response shows that he agrees with the quote.

      That is false. Ron Paul clearly stated that the theology of this group was irrelevant.

      1. What is so wrong about trying to convince conservative Christians of whatever denomination to adopt the non-aggression principle? Don’t “progressives” support the idea of conservative Christians adopting the non-aggression principle when it comes to gays, ethnic minorities and war?

      2. Speaking of “holocaust denial”, other than “The Killing Fields”, has there ever been a Hollywood movie that delved into the true nature of the slaughterfest that was the USSR and Mao’s China? Seeing that Stalin and Mao killed 6-10x the numbers that Hitler killed, I think that makes the “progressives” 6-10x times the “holocaust deniers” that they alleged these Catholics to be (to the extent their position has been accurately described).

      3. Speaking of ethnic separatism, the raison d’etre of the State of Israel is to provide a homeland for a particular religious and ethnic group to the exclusion of others on stolen land (with more land being continually stolen each passing day). The entire foreign policy of the US is to facilitate this policy while basically keeping the American public in the dark with the constant help of the MSM, including MSNBC. Anyone attempting to criticize or shine a light on this policy is viciously denounced as a racist, Nazi or anti-Semite.

      4. It was excellent the way Ron Paul told off that despicable bimbo Ms. Wagner.

  9. > "Judeo-Freemasonry" aims to exterminate humanity

    Nonsense. It seeks to disarm us first. If that succeeds, then they'll exterminate us.

  10. I guess she is unaware of the lies about Fast & Furious, the NSA, and Benghazi from this administration. oops. Not to mention Obama's lies about lobbyists, signing statements, etc. etc.

  11. Partial transcript as follows:

    WAGNER: Dr. Paul you talk a lot about liberty, and broad coalitions. And I think one of the, you know, one of the most hopeful signs for the GOP is the broad coalition that you were able to put together in the last presidential race, young people, old people, middle aged people, which is really an outlier within the current state of the Republican Party. But with your emphasis on liberty I have to ask you about some of the folks that are in your coalition. And this weekend you’re going to be giving an address at the Fatima center in Canada, which has been called a hardcore anti-Semite group. Is this something that you would reconsider doing?
    PAUL: No, as a Catholic —
    WAGNER: Even — go ahead.
    PAUL: I even talk to Republicans and they disagree with everything I say. You know, when I’m on a Republican stage and I say we should have a foreign policy of a golden rule they boo me. I’m trying to convert people. But I’m going to a conservative, Catholic group that is pro-peace, and wants to hear my foreign policy and my take on economy. If I go only — I wouldn’t be on this station if I had to have a litmus test. I mean, you have —

  12. WAGNER: This station —
    PAUL: — why can’t I go there?
    PAUL: Now you’re categorizing —
    WAGNER: — and opposing Jewish nationalism and preaching about Satan’s plans against the church among which include the granting of full citizenship to the Jews. Is your appearance at an event like this not some kind of endorsement of —
    PAUL: OK, what I would say is yes there are disagreements within the Catholic Church and they’re debating, it’s theological. I have nothing to do with that. I’m not even going to pretend I know anything about that. Sounds to me like you have me on here to bash Catholics.
    WAGNER: I was raised Catholic so that’s the last thing I want to do.
    PAUL: Well, you ought to be more courteous to them and give them a break. Why can’t we have discussions with people that might have a difference? And I put up with a lot of this in the last 40 years, because not too many people agree. But why I’m excited, is the country is coming toward the way of peace, and this coalition of libertarians and progressives, we’ve had too much war, too much spending, too much Federal Reserve spending of money and that’s what’s important. And for you to bring this stuff up about the infractions of some group that I have no idea what their theology is all about. I don’t even have any idea why you do things like that.
    WAGNER: Well, because, Dr. Paul, this –
    PAUL: It just astounds me.
    WAGNER: There have been a lot of folks that have been involved with your campaign, supporters, there have been newsletters that have been accredited to you that have strong anti-Semitic racist undertones and I think the American public is curious about how you endorse or do not endorse or deny involvement with any of that. And that, that’s why it’s a relevant line of questioning. At the same time —
    PAUL: So I’ve had that — you know the first month after I was elected in 1976 I had a picture in a magazine. I was practicing physician for all those years, and I run for office. I had no expectation of winning. I win, I’m totally innocent. The first month they put my picture in a magazine with a swastika. So this is just horrible. It just goes on. When people disagree with you on ideas they have to destroy your character. That’s what they do. The main reason I get attacked from every — anybody like you, it’s because there’s disagreement on my foreign policy. I want peace and I don’t want to support the warmongers. So you have to go after some of these characters.
    WAGNER: I don’t think that that constitutes a character attack, Dr. Paul, but we really do appreciate you coming on the show and talking about the ideas that are dear to you, and your hope for the country. Thanks for your time.
    PAUL: You had your chance. I hope I had my chance for my answers.
    WAGNER: Thank you very much, Dr. Ron Paul, host of the Ron Paul Channel. Thanks for your time.

  13. The Fatima Center responds:

    The historical consensus is that Hitler alone killed 11 million people in the territories occupied by the Nazi regime, including six million Jews and three million Polish Catholics.

    The historical consensus is that, between them, the Lenin and Stalin regimes killed upwards of 40 million Christians.

    Neither the Fatima Center, nor its head, Father Nicholas Gruner, seeks to deny the historical consensus concerning the death tolls of any of the genocides that occurred in the 20th century.

    Rather, the Center’s mission has been to secure the Consecration of Russia the Blessed Virgin requested in the Fatima message so that such crimes against various peoples and classes of people, which are still being committed in numerous places, will cease and the whole world will have peace—just as Our Lady promised if the Consecration were performed by the Pope and the bishops of the Catholic Church.

    Alex Wagner, you are a shining example of what Obama and the "progressives" are all about.